4 ms·

I don't know much about the broadband market, but i feel the future will be wireless highspeed internet. In many regions LTE/4G already reach very decent speeds

by kayoone 12y ago

I don't know much about the broadband market, but i feel the future will be wireless highspeed internet. In many regions LTE/4G already reach very decent speeds with low latency, the main problem is insane traffic costs and probably not enough infrastructure to support many clients. But the technology is already there isn't it ? Or will companies always want wired highspeed internet ?

gizmo686 12y ago
The problem with wireless is scaling. When we run out of room so send data wirelessly, we have essentially no way to increase the bandwidth, so we instead need to reduce demand with the high prices you see. Wired networks and almost unbounded scaling potential.
- kayoone 12y ago
  By room you mean radio frequencies ? ok that makes sense. But for example my mom lives in a very rural area of germany but luckily still gets around 4MBps from DSL. That has been the case for 10 years though and will probably never increase while my own bandwidth has increased to 100Mbps in the meantime. The wireless network is hardly used at all in her area though and could offer up to 50Mbps if it weren't for the high traffic costs.
  - manicdee 12y ago
    Part of the high cost of mobile delivery of last mile services is the requirement for this heavy infrastructure to service a small number of people. The further away from a regional centre the fewer the number of extra customers you will reach for the same investment in infrastructure. The mobile tower still has to provide backhaul of some kind. In the usual scenario the backhaul will be provided by microwave connections, though in some cases it might be a fibre connection. Microwave is easier to manage since you don't have to keep leasing right-of-way for your cables, and if something goes wrong it's either one end or the other (as opposed to cables, where your problem with connectivity from, say, Canberra to Sydney might be in Canberra or Sydney or any point along that 400km cable). Wireless is not a solution for last-mile fixed services except in very sparse rural settings. It will always be lower-speed than wired connections. The only advantage of wireless is the ability to reach more people in a given service area for the same infrastructure cost.
    - kanzure 12y ago
      > Part of the high cost of mobile delivery of last mile services is the requirement for this heavy infrastructure to service a small number of people. How much of that infrastructure cost is regulatory cost versus just the cost of people building their own antennas? Specifically I am wondering if this is another industry where equipment isn't as difficult or costly as the folklore (or marketing materials) would have you believe.
      - XorNot 12y ago
        This is what a regular analog TV station looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXXmUWD9_0w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXXmUWD9_0w Does any part of that say "cheap" to you? Radios are difficult. Radio transmitters which don't pollute the spectrum are more difficult. There's a reason mesh networking is a big research area at the moment - because the little bit of 2.4ghz you use around your house absolutely doesn't scale. You keep it contained and low power, and use wired backhaul. You want to go to high power? You now need electronically aimed beam-forming antennas, much higher power levels, you need all of this linked to the national backbone anyway.
pratyushag 12y ago
Companies might use wired internet but residential places without cable will likely move to mobile. This is exactly what is already happening in Nigeria.
- _delirium 12y ago
  I even know of a few people in Copenhagen who've done that. Companies are starting to offer all-inclusive packages for mobile+home 4G, where you can add a fixed wifi router onto your existing mobile 4G plan. If you're already paying for mobile 4G, the incremental cost to those packages is often considerably less than the cost of home cable+DSL, at least if your data usage is moderate.
  - kayoone 12y ago
    thats exactly what i mean, i could see most of the population with moderate internet usage move to mobile internet completely in the next 10 years. Its a different story for power users and businesses of course. On the other hand you have more and more services like phones and TV move to IP, so a wired highspeed connection might be even more important in the future.
- x1798DE 12y ago
  While possible, I think the issues in Nigeria are different than in countries with strong property rights. From what I hear, the reason why wireless/mobile internet is so much more reliable and popular in Africa is that with wired internet people steal wires that are hung on utility poles. Not sure if they would also dig up underground wires, but obviously burying the wire has more associated cost than hanging it from a pole.
thirdsun 12y ago
The broadband situation in smaller towns and villages in germany is horrible - it's an issue that has long been neglected here. I have to deal with a 1 Mb down/128 Kb up (yes, those are bits...obviously) DSL line in a village with a population of about 1000. Recently we got LTE, which i hope isn't meant to be a serious alternative to proper DSL/cable as the volume limit renders it close to unusable (15 GB or 30 GB for additional costs, every GB above that will require additional 5€). Furthermore connections are dropped frequently and it feels as if the local LTE access point is already at its limit during peak hours. LTE just isn't an alternative. Unfortunately I fear that this is all that is planned for our region as part of the so called broadband initiative.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  I love comments like these. Imagine that, we're complaining about having only 1mbps down and 128kbps up. And that's wireless. That's amazing in a way. Progress is so subtle that what would have been an incredible feat of advanced magic less than 2 decades ago is now considered to be anaemic and practically unusable. To me this is a sign of huge progress, not only do we expect multiple mbps connections for our pocket computers, we're upset when we don't get that level of performance even in the backwaters of our societies.
  - mkesper 12y ago
    Let's face it: Without acceptable internet access, you're dead.
    - johnpickens 12y ago
      This is the best comment I've ever read. Seriously though, when it comes to business an internet presence is practically a necessity at this point.

by kayoone 12y ago

gizmo686 12y ago

The problem with wireless is scaling. When we run out of room so send data wirelessly, we have essentially no way to increase the bandwidth, so we instead need to reduce demand with the high prices you see. Wired networks and almost unbounded scaling potential.

kayoone 12y ago
By room you mean radio frequencies ? ok that makes sense. But for example my mom lives in a very rural area of germany but luckily still gets around 4MBps from DSL. That has been the case for 10 years though and will probably never increase while my own bandwidth has increased to 100Mbps in the meantime. The wireless network is hardly used at all in her area though and could offer up to 50Mbps if it weren't for the high traffic costs.
- manicdee 12y ago
  Part of the high cost of mobile delivery of last mile services is the requirement for this heavy infrastructure to service a small number of people. The further away from a regional centre the fewer the number of extra customers you will reach for the same investment in infrastructure. The mobile tower still has to provide backhaul of some kind. In the usual scenario the backhaul will be provided by microwave connections, though in some cases it might be a fibre connection. Microwave is easier to manage since you don't have to keep leasing right-of-way for your cables, and if something goes wrong it's either one end or the other (as opposed to cables, where your problem with connectivity from, say, Canberra to Sydney might be in Canberra or Sydney or any point along that 400km cable). Wireless is not a solution for last-mile fixed services except in very sparse rural settings. It will always be lower-speed than wired connections. The only advantage of wireless is the ability to reach more people in a given service area for the same infrastructure cost.
  - kanzure 12y ago
    > Part of the high cost of mobile delivery of last mile services is the requirement for this heavy infrastructure to service a small number of people. How much of that infrastructure cost is regulatory cost versus just the cost of people building their own antennas? Specifically I am wondering if this is another industry where equipment isn't as difficult or costly as the folklore (or marketing materials) would have you believe.
    - XorNot 12y ago
      This is what a regular analog TV station looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXXmUWD9_0w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXXmUWD9_0w Does any part of that say "cheap" to you? Radios are difficult. Radio transmitters which don't pollute the spectrum are more difficult. There's a reason mesh networking is a big research area at the moment - because the little bit of 2.4ghz you use around your house absolutely doesn't scale. You keep it contained and low power, and use wired backhaul. You want to go to high power? You now need electronically aimed beam-forming antennas, much higher power levels, you need all of this linked to the national backbone anyway.

pratyushag 12y ago

Companies might use wired internet but residential places without cable will likely move to mobile. This is exactly what is already happening in Nigeria.

_delirium 12y ago
I even know of a few people in Copenhagen who've done that. Companies are starting to offer all-inclusive packages for mobile+home 4G, where you can add a fixed wifi router onto your existing mobile 4G plan. If you're already paying for mobile 4G, the incremental cost to those packages is often considerably less than the cost of home cable+DSL, at least if your data usage is moderate.
- kayoone 12y ago
  thats exactly what i mean, i could see most of the population with moderate internet usage move to mobile internet completely in the next 10 years. Its a different story for power users and businesses of course. On the other hand you have more and more services like phones and TV move to IP, so a wired highspeed connection might be even more important in the future.
x1798DE 12y ago
While possible, I think the issues in Nigeria are different than in countries with strong property rights. From what I hear, the reason why wireless/mobile internet is so much more reliable and popular in Africa is that with wired internet people steal wires that are hung on utility poles. Not sure if they would also dig up underground wires, but obviously burying the wire has more associated cost than hanging it from a pole.

thirdsun 12y ago

The broadband situation in smaller towns and villages in germany is horrible - it's an issue that has long been neglected here. I have to deal with a 1 Mb down/128 Kb up (yes, those are bits...obviously) DSL line in a village with a population of about 1000. Recently we got LTE, which i hope isn't meant to be a serious alternative to proper DSL/cable as the volume limit renders it close to unusable (15 GB or 30 GB for additional costs, every GB above that will require additional 5€). Furthermore connections are dropped frequently and it feels as if the local LTE access point is already at its limit during peak hours. LTE just isn't an alternative. Unfortunately I fear that this is all that is planned for our region as part of the so called broadband initiative.

jacquesm 12y ago
I love comments like these. Imagine that, we're complaining about having only 1mbps down and 128kbps up. And that's wireless. That's amazing in a way. Progress is so subtle that what would have been an incredible feat of advanced magic less than 2 decades ago is now considered to be anaemic and practically unusable. To me this is a sign of huge progress, not only do we expect multiple mbps connections for our pocket computers, we're upset when we don't get that level of performance even in the backwaters of our societies.
- mkesper 12y ago
  Let's face it: Without acceptable internet access, you're dead.
  - johnpickens 12y ago
    This is the best comment I've ever read. Seriously though, when it comes to business an internet presence is practically a necessity at this point.