5 ms·

Could you please link to the map? And how are you 100% sure that you aren't being watched by your ISP at least? :)

MichaelGG 12y ago
And while there might not be a mass surveillance system, in such countries, it might be easier to bribe an ISP or otherwise compromise them.
- thegeomaster 12y ago
  It's harder than you might think. It all depends on who and how high-profile you are. Serbia's got around 7 500 000 residents and it takes a serious company with a serious infrastructure to interconnect them all and provide them with Internet access. Of course, it's incomparably easier to do than with U.S. ISPs, but then again, in the U.S. there are more powerful instances with an interest in bribing the providers than here. After all, who knows? Maybe we're watched as much as others, but I like to think we're (for now, until they catch up) safe from some more tyrannic forms of surveillance.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    I know nothing about Serbia, but what are personal bribes like? I know that in Central America and Africa, bribing telecom employees to do things is relatively straightforward. It probably is "easy" in the US, too, but I'd imagine it'd cost a lot more as people seem to be rather concerned about being caught.
    - thegeomaster 12y ago
      Well, if someone does not give a shit about their job, they will be easy to bribe. I don't know about people working in tech here, but bribing someone to get a job, or have something done "off the record" in the administration is considered normal, and often the only way to achieve something due to even courts and judges being corrupt. Corruption is actually one of our biggest problems, and new governments are focusing their campaigns on that a lot.
thegeomaster 12y ago
This is the map, the small grey area in the Balkans is Serbia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Boundless-heatmap-large-001.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Boundless... And of course I'm not sure. But foreign intelligence agencies have bigger budgets and better connections so they pose a far greater threat. It's more likely that a CA was compromised by the NSA than my ISP :) We aren't completely free of surveillance, but the impact isn't that big like elsewhere. For now, at least...
- esbonsa 12y ago
  I am not blaming you, but by you commenting here, you make it ok for the NSA to target all Americans who replied to this thread and all Americans that replied to threads that these Americans replied to in the past and all Americans that replied to threads that these Americans replied to in the past (since the NSA use 3 degree of separation rule).
  - thegeomaster 12y ago
    I don't get it, care to elaborate?
    - esbonsa 12y ago
      For example, if Person_1 from a country besides USA calls an American (Person_2), it makes it ok for the NSA to spy on everyone Person_2 calls (lets call them People_3), and everyone People_3 calls (People_4) and everyone People_4 calls... I assume they follow the same rules for internet traffic so they basically get all internet data even if they are technically not allowed to spy on Americans... http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/you-may-already-be-a-winner-in-nsas-three-degrees-surveillance-sweepstakes/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/you-ma...
      - thegeomaster 12y ago
        So you're saying that non-Americans should not comment on HN?
Havoc 12y ago
>how are you 100% sure that you aren't being watched by your ISP at least? :) I'm in a similar position so I'll have a shot at this. Local ISPs tend not to log detail (no business case) and they are legally prohibited from monitoring communication anyway. So the only viable scenario is give the ISP an IP and ask for account owner (IP vs Account is logged). Which they won't do without a warrant (image risk). That combined with the messed up court system means that nothing makes it through the red tape & hassle unless its something intense (child trafficking etc)
- thegeomaster 12y ago
  Thanks for the info! Where are you from?
  - Havoc 12y ago
    South Africa
- purringmeow 12y ago
  We are talking about Serbia, not the US.
  - thegeomaster 12y ago
    I doubt he's talking about the US. The situation he's describing, if anything, sounds a lot like how things work over here.
  - Havoc 12y ago
    I was talking about South Africa, which presumably also counts as an underdeveloped country.

And while there might not be a mass surveillance system, in such countries, it might be easier to bribe an ISP or otherwise compromise them.

thegeomaster 12y ago
It's harder than you might think. It all depends on who and how high-profile you are. Serbia's got around 7 500 000 residents and it takes a serious company with a serious infrastructure to interconnect them all and provide them with Internet access. Of course, it's incomparably easier to do than with U.S. ISPs, but then again, in the U.S. there are more powerful instances with an interest in bribing the providers than here. After all, who knows? Maybe we're watched as much as others, but I like to think we're (for now, until they catch up) safe from some more tyrannic forms of surveillance.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  I know nothing about Serbia, but what are personal bribes like? I know that in Central America and Africa, bribing telecom employees to do things is relatively straightforward. It probably is "easy" in the US, too, but I'd imagine it'd cost a lot more as people seem to be rather concerned about being caught.
  - thegeomaster 12y ago
    Well, if someone does not give a shit about their job, they will be easy to bribe. I don't know about people working in tech here, but bribing someone to get a job, or have something done "off the record" in the administration is considered normal, and often the only way to achieve something due to even courts and judges being corrupt. Corruption is actually one of our biggest problems, and new governments are focusing their campaigns on that a lot.

thegeomaster 12y ago

This is the map, the small grey area in the Balkans is Serbia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Boundless-heatmap-large-001.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Boundless... And of course I'm not sure. But foreign intelligence agencies have bigger budgets and better connections so they pose a far greater threat. It's more likely that a CA was compromised by the NSA than my ISP :) We aren't completely free of surveillance, but the impact isn't that big like elsewhere. For now, at least...

esbonsa 12y ago
I am not blaming you, but by you commenting here, you make it ok for the NSA to target all Americans who replied to this thread and all Americans that replied to threads that these Americans replied to in the past and all Americans that replied to threads that these Americans replied to in the past (since the NSA use 3 degree of separation rule).
- thegeomaster 12y ago
  I don't get it, care to elaborate?
  - esbonsa 12y ago
    For example, if Person_1 from a country besides USA calls an American (Person_2), it makes it ok for the NSA to spy on everyone Person_2 calls (lets call them People_3), and everyone People_3 calls (People_4) and everyone People_4 calls... I assume they follow the same rules for internet traffic so they basically get all internet data even if they are technically not allowed to spy on Americans... http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/you-may-already-be-a-winner-in-nsas-three-degrees-surveillance-sweepstakes/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/you-ma...
    - thegeomaster 12y ago
      So you're saying that non-Americans should not comment on HN?

Havoc 12y ago

>how are you 100% sure that you aren't being watched by your ISP at least? :) I'm in a similar position so I'll have a shot at this. Local ISPs tend not to log detail (no business case) and they are legally prohibited from monitoring communication anyway. So the only viable scenario is give the ISP an IP and ask for account owner (IP vs Account is logged). Which they won't do without a warrant (image risk). That combined with the messed up court system means that nothing makes it through the red tape & hassle unless its something intense (child trafficking etc)

thegeomaster 12y ago
Thanks for the info! Where are you from?
- Havoc 12y ago
  South Africa
purringmeow 12y ago
We are talking about Serbia, not the US.
- thegeomaster 12y ago
  I doubt he's talking about the US. The situation he's describing, if anything, sounds a lot like how things work over here.
- Havoc 12y ago
  I was talking about South Africa, which presumably also counts as an underdeveloped country.