4 ms·

You know, I don't really mind that the NSA is collecting this information. What bothers me is that it's not being released to the public. What good are their ef

by walrus 12y ago

You know, I don't really mind that the NSA is collecting this information. What bothers me is that it's not being released to the public. What good are their efforts if no one else can build off of their work?

obituary_latte 12y ago
As if they care about the common good. Hilarious.
- jonnybgood 12y ago
  For US citizens, it's an obvious yes. If you disagree, can you show me where collecting this information has held detrimental effects on the common good of US citizens?
  - keithpeter 12y ago
    Perhaps, over time, the increasing isolation of the US coupled with deep distrust of future presidents by the leaders of other governments may lead to a reduction in economic power? Also, the impossibility of organising a broad based political movement for change within the US in response to, say, severely worsening economic or climatic conditions because of 'self censorship' by US citizens? These are weak signals working over a long timescale. But those things are important.
  - ivanca 12y ago
    If you don't know what information they are collecting and how they are using it, then how would you know if it has or has not detrimental effects? It's impossible to know.
  - olefoo 12y ago
    If being under surveillance really does trigger the feeling of being stalked as prey; then it raises everyones stress level ( as represented by cortisol in the bloodstream ) and that should be detectable in the general population through the incidence of stress related injuries and mental health issues. Of course it could just be lost in the noise of the ongoing financial and environmental crises.
- meepmorp 12y ago
  I think you'd be hard pressed to find people at the NSA who don't care about the common good. Perhaps you don't share the same understanding of what constitutes the common good, but your accusation is unfair.
  - samstave 12y ago
    Utter crap. I do not think you know what the hell you're talking about - and I also don't think you understand the gravity of the power that having an octopus for total information awareness over the planet actually means. You're lost.
    - woah 12y ago
      Hitler did what he did for the common good.
      - olefoo 12y ago
        He was a humanitarian as well as a vegetarian. _insert emoticon indicating sarcasm combined with emoticon indicating awful pun_
      - olefoo 12y ago
        He was a humanitarian as well as a vegetarian. _insert emoticon indicating sarcasm combined with emoticon indicating awful pun_
    - matthewmacleod 12y ago
      It's not crap - the point is valid. The fact that there exists danger in "an octopus for total information awareness", and that IMO it's entirely undesirable, it's also perfectly possible that a bunch of people disagree with me, and believe that the existence of such is indeed for the "common good." You don't win a war like this by painting these people as evil or amoral. They are just wrong.
      - meepmorp 12y ago
smtddr 12y ago
>>You know, I don't really mind that the NSA is collecting this information. What bothers me is that it's not being released to the public. What good are their efforts if no one else can build off of their work? You don't mind because you think it'll only be used to catch "hardcore criminals & terrorist". Also, if everyone had the info the NSA has I'm sure all kinds of extortion, job dismissals and divorces would happen. Even those in power I'm sure don't want that info just out there on an API for any random person with interwebz.
- walrus 12y ago
  > You don't mind because you think it'll only be used to catch "hardcore criminals & terrorist". Please don't speak for me. I was talking about the information collection, not what they're doing with that information.
  - smtddr 12y ago
    What possible good can come from collecting a bunch of private data that wasn't intended to be collected by a third party? They're not collecting it for nothing. If you think it's okay to collect the data you must consider what can be done with it. Catching criminals? Sure, but that's very minor compared to the real harm that data can do to a bunch of relatively harmless people. Like using a gun to kill a housefly. The chances of you hitting the housefly are very low, but the chances of you harming a bunch of innocent people while trying are likely.
dan_bk 12y ago
They don't release their data to the public because this would cancel the asymmetry that they are aiming to increase. Asymmetry in information or money is the definition of power.
DanBC 12y ago
You look at the various other agencies and foundations that feed into NSA, and look at the academic work being funded by those groups. There's a reason Springer-Verlag publishes so many data-mining books.

by walrus 12y ago

obituary_latte 12y ago

As if they care about the common good. Hilarious.

jonnybgood 12y ago
For US citizens, it's an obvious yes. If you disagree, can you show me where collecting this information has held detrimental effects on the common good of US citizens?
- keithpeter 12y ago
  Perhaps, over time, the increasing isolation of the US coupled with deep distrust of future presidents by the leaders of other governments may lead to a reduction in economic power? Also, the impossibility of organising a broad based political movement for change within the US in response to, say, severely worsening economic or climatic conditions because of 'self censorship' by US citizens? These are weak signals working over a long timescale. But those things are important.
- ivanca 12y ago
  If you don't know what information they are collecting and how they are using it, then how would you know if it has or has not detrimental effects? It's impossible to know.
- olefoo 12y ago
  If being under surveillance really does trigger the feeling of being stalked as prey; then it raises everyones stress level ( as represented by cortisol in the bloodstream ) and that should be detectable in the general population through the incidence of stress related injuries and mental health issues. Of course it could just be lost in the noise of the ongoing financial and environmental crises.
meepmorp 12y ago
I think you'd be hard pressed to find people at the NSA who don't care about the common good. Perhaps you don't share the same understanding of what constitutes the common good, but your accusation is unfair.
- samstave 12y ago
  Utter crap. I do not think you know what the hell you're talking about - and I also don't think you understand the gravity of the power that having an octopus for total information awareness over the planet actually means. You're lost.
  - woah 12y ago
    Hitler did what he did for the common good.
    - olefoo 12y ago
      He was a humanitarian as well as a vegetarian. _insert emoticon indicating sarcasm combined with emoticon indicating awful pun_
    - olefoo 12y ago
      He was a humanitarian as well as a vegetarian. _insert emoticon indicating sarcasm combined with emoticon indicating awful pun_
  - matthewmacleod 12y ago
    It's not crap - the point is valid. The fact that there exists danger in "an octopus for total information awareness", and that IMO it's entirely undesirable, it's also perfectly possible that a bunch of people disagree with me, and believe that the existence of such is indeed for the "common good." You don't win a war like this by painting these people as evil or amoral. They are just wrong.
    - meepmorp 12y ago

smtddr 12y ago

>>You know, I don't really mind that the NSA is collecting this information. What bothers me is that it's not being released to the public. What good are their efforts if no one else can build off of their work? You don't mind because you think it'll only be used to catch "hardcore criminals & terrorist". Also, if everyone had the info the NSA has I'm sure all kinds of extortion, job dismissals and divorces would happen. Even those in power I'm sure don't want that info just out there on an API for any random person with interwebz.

walrus 12y ago
> You don't mind because you think it'll only be used to catch "hardcore criminals & terrorist". Please don't speak for me. I was talking about the information collection, not what they're doing with that information.
- smtddr 12y ago
  What possible good can come from collecting a bunch of private data that wasn't intended to be collected by a third party? They're not collecting it for nothing. If you think it's okay to collect the data you must consider what can be done with it. Catching criminals? Sure, but that's very minor compared to the real harm that data can do to a bunch of relatively harmless people. Like using a gun to kill a housefly. The chances of you hitting the housefly are very low, but the chances of you harming a bunch of innocent people while trying are likely.

dan_bk 12y ago

They don't release their data to the public because this would cancel the asymmetry that they are aiming to increase. Asymmetry in information or money is the definition of power.

DanBC 12y ago

You look at the various other agencies and foundations that feed into NSA, and look at the academic work being funded by those groups. There's a reason Springer-Verlag publishes so many data-mining books.