3 ms·

Might be worth bringing up that fact that a significant portion of kids who do go to college don't go to learn, they go because it is the next step in life, oft

by hyperion2010 12y ago

Might be worth bringing up that fact that a significant portion of kids who do go to college don't go to learn, they go because it is the next step in life, often the first step where they are away from their parents. This is a societal problem with goal setting and inspiring the next generation to be motivated by something other than the nebulous idea of 'success' (read: money for most people). Also worth recalling that the Oxford riots of 1355 started because the local townspeople were pissed off with the Seminary students for chasing women (among other things). Some things never change.

jrs235 12y ago
Yup. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7814120 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7814120 Luckily for me my aptitude made college easy. The majority of my uni experience was about the first time freedom and responsibility of living on my own.
- marincounty 12y ago
  Yea--I had a friend who used to say the same thing, but he went to UC Santa Cruz and did too many drugs. He would come home on breaks, and the damage was very noticeable. He's fine now, actually a programmer I think, but I miss the dude he left in Santa Cruz. (I think he did too much acid? I'm pro drugs, but thought I would pass this along as a cautionary tale.)
  - tormeh 12y ago
    Prohibition solves nothing, as we can all see. I wonder what other mechanism might instead prevent this kind of thing from happening. Education? Psychologists? I wonder if we spent all the money used in law enforcement of drug laws on therapists instead, how would that turn out?
    - pedrosorio 12y ago
      Wonder no more: http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decrimin...
  - eruditely 12y ago
    This statement is just vague enough for prejudice, but not concrete enough for evidence. Mental illness that was merely latent and could not be seen at the care of home, onset disabilities, many mentally ill people find drugs in reverse, not the other way around. Sigh.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      Because drugs are illegal it is hard to do research but most peoe are pretty clear that drugs can have a causal effect on mental health problems, even for people who would not have exhibted and mental illness without drug use. I am strongly in favour of legalising drugs. Warning people about the risks of mental health problems is a calm, sensible, evidence based bit of advice and is not anti-drug propaganda. It is disappointing to see so many advocates for better drug laws ignore or even argue against this advice. They are harming the campaign for better drug laws and they are ignoring the risks that people face.
      - mercer 12y ago
        > Because drugs are illegal it is hard to do research but most peoe are pretty clear that drugs can have a causal effect on mental health problems, even for people who would not have exhibited and mental illness without drug use. From both personal experience and from observing various kinds of drug users close to me , I get the distinct impression that the danger of drugs is often not inherent to the drug itself (as in, 'drug has irreversible effect X'), but rather more to do with the fact that if you are a regular drug user, you're essentially wresting control away from your 'natural' functions, and taking matters into your own hand. This is just my experience and observation; I'm perfectly happy to be told that I'm completely wrong. Regardless of whether you are mentally 'fit' to begin with or not, taking control of things that normally are managed more, eh, organically carries specific kinds of risks. Especially if it is not entirely clear what these particular 'things' or bodily functions are. I think this applies to drugs in the broadest sense. Take, for example, someone using sleep medication to fall asleep. If this person gets used to this medication, the first problem is that his body might 'forget' how to naturally fall asleep. Even worse, this person might get used to eating a huge meal or drinking a coffee every evening. While 'naturally' this kind of habit can disrupt sleep, the 'managed sleep', through medication, removed this problem. When the person stops using this medication, his first challenge is to give the body time to learn how to fall asleep by itself again. But the bigger challenge is to learn (or even just realize) that he should not eat a big meal or drink coffee late at night. Now with sleep medication you at least have a decent idea of the effects. But if your medication is weed or alcohol (for example), the effects are more varied and unpredictable. I think legalization doesn't necessarily 'solve' the problems that a substance can present, as alcohol is arguably one of the worst drugs one can use. Cigarettes aren't that great either. But being able to reason about a substance is crucial. Talking about smoking or drinking, and associated dangers, was a part of my upbringing. Talking about other drugs (MDMA being a popular one over here currently) just didn't happen, in large part because they're illegal to begin with. If things are illegal, why have a reasonable conversation about it with your kids/students/peers/etc.?

jrs235 12y ago

Yup. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7814120 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7814120 Luckily for me my aptitude made college easy. The majority of my uni experience was about the first time freedom and responsibility of living on my own.

marincounty 12y ago
Yea--I had a friend who used to say the same thing, but he went to UC Santa Cruz and did too many drugs. He would come home on breaks, and the damage was very noticeable. He's fine now, actually a programmer I think, but I miss the dude he left in Santa Cruz. (I think he did too much acid? I'm pro drugs, but thought I would pass this along as a cautionary tale.)
- tormeh 12y ago
  Prohibition solves nothing, as we can all see. I wonder what other mechanism might instead prevent this kind of thing from happening. Education? Psychologists? I wonder if we spent all the money used in law enforcement of drug laws on therapists instead, how would that turn out?
  - pedrosorio 12y ago
    Wonder no more: http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decrimin...
- eruditely 12y ago
  This statement is just vague enough for prejudice, but not concrete enough for evidence. Mental illness that was merely latent and could not be seen at the care of home, onset disabilities, many mentally ill people find drugs in reverse, not the other way around. Sigh.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Because drugs are illegal it is hard to do research but most peoe are pretty clear that drugs can have a causal effect on mental health problems, even for people who would not have exhibted and mental illness without drug use. I am strongly in favour of legalising drugs. Warning people about the risks of mental health problems is a calm, sensible, evidence based bit of advice and is not anti-drug propaganda. It is disappointing to see so many advocates for better drug laws ignore or even argue against this advice. They are harming the campaign for better drug laws and they are ignoring the risks that people face.
    - mercer 12y ago
      > Because drugs are illegal it is hard to do research but most peoe are pretty clear that drugs can have a causal effect on mental health problems, even for people who would not have exhibited and mental illness without drug use. From both personal experience and from observing various kinds of drug users close to me , I get the distinct impression that the danger of drugs is often not inherent to the drug itself (as in, 'drug has irreversible effect X'), but rather more to do with the fact that if you are a regular drug user, you're essentially wresting control away from your 'natural' functions, and taking matters into your own hand. This is just my experience and observation; I'm perfectly happy to be told that I'm completely wrong. Regardless of whether you are mentally 'fit' to begin with or not, taking control of things that normally are managed more, eh, organically carries specific kinds of risks. Especially if it is not entirely clear what these particular 'things' or bodily functions are. I think this applies to drugs in the broadest sense. Take, for example, someone using sleep medication to fall asleep. If this person gets used to this medication, the first problem is that his body might 'forget' how to naturally fall asleep. Even worse, this person might get used to eating a huge meal or drinking a coffee every evening. While 'naturally' this kind of habit can disrupt sleep, the 'managed sleep', through medication, removed this problem. When the person stops using this medication, his first challenge is to give the body time to learn how to fall asleep by itself again. But the bigger challenge is to learn (or even just realize) that he should not eat a big meal or drink coffee late at night. Now with sleep medication you at least have a decent idea of the effects. But if your medication is weed or alcohol (for example), the effects are more varied and unpredictable. I think legalization doesn't necessarily 'solve' the problems that a substance can present, as alcohol is arguably one of the worst drugs one can use. Cigarettes aren't that great either. But being able to reason about a substance is crucial. Talking about smoking or drinking, and associated dangers, was a part of my upbringing. Talking about other drugs (MDMA being a popular one over here currently) just didn't happen, in large part because they're illegal to begin with. If things are illegal, why have a reasonable conversation about it with your kids/students/peers/etc.?