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> Cost, however, shouldn't be what limits surveillance, regulation should. How do you regulate the regulators? If our government follows it's current course, t

> Cost, however, shouldn't be what limits surveillance, regulation should. How do you regulate the regulators? If our government follows it's current course, the "Tzar of Surveillance" will also be a (past/future) executive & major shareholder of a drone manufacturer.

alkonaut 12y ago
> How do you regulate the regulators? That's politics. Democracy requires things like accountability, transparency. If the government has huge authorities that are almost completely opaque to scrutiny, that's a democracy problem.
- briantakita 12y ago
  > that's a democracy problem It's a systemic thinking problem. You seem to want to isolate every piece. That makes it easy to "pass the buck" in a round-robin fashion. It's a problem with democracy, so we should make it cheaper for law enforcement to take away our rights, because progress! Democracy won't be solved until the practice of special interests making most of our laws is removed. The special interests make laws to tighten their stranglehold on our "democracy" and to suppress our freedom. Law enforcement, surveillance, & additional laws becomes more pervasive in our lives so people who wish to exercise their democratic rights are suppressed. It's a "problem with democracy" again. In the mean time, will the democracy problem ever be solved? Will we ever make progress on that front? Are we playing the right game? To improve things, we need to start thinking more holistically, not myopically. A house, or system, divided will fall. > If police can switch from a helicopter to a drone for sime mission, and save 90%, that should be a good thing. Agreed, however what will really happen is 10x the number of drones will be bought & used.
  - alkonaut 12y ago
    Wait, if special interests make laws that's another very fundamental democracy problem. This isn't passing the buck, it's pointing out the obvious fact that its all one and the same. Democracy is having all your authorities under scrutiny and control by the people. It's hard. In a state with unbelievable amounts spent on lobbying and with self-monitoring intelligence authorities, there are certainly things to work on. Imagine a country where corporations can't sponsor political campaigns. Or where surveillance isn't monitored by secret courts applying secret laws. Democracy isn't black or white, it's always a shade of gray.
    - briantakita 12y ago
      > Democracy is having all your authorities under scrutiny and control by the people. It's hard. Agreed. The population needs to be at a point where it can handle the responsibility of having discernment. They need to see beyond the illusions spun by those who wish to suppress the mind. > Imagine a country where corporations can't sponsor political campaigns. Or where surveillance isn't monitored by secret courts applying secret laws. That would be wonderful! I hope we get there soon. These are basic tools used to keep the current systems in power. The people who wish to dominate us will use technology to keep people enslaved in the current 9-7, pay you taxes, buy lots of things, spend your life commuting, live the generic American Dream, don't decide what your actual dream is, culture. My opinion; the system is run by intelligent and malevolent souls who make the money, impose culture, have massive influence, & power. If they are hell bent on dominion, do you think they want to allow transparency in how decisions are made? IMO, that will never happen with the current structure. They will simply take "Democracy" and redefine it to what we see today. I think we agree that it's up to the people to take their power back. > Democracy isn't black or white, it's always a shade of gray. I hear that. However, there are still dualities at play. We can go in different directions. Toward thriving or toward death.

alkonaut 12y ago

> How do you regulate the regulators? That's politics. Democracy requires things like accountability, transparency. If the government has huge authorities that are almost completely opaque to scrutiny, that's a democracy problem.

briantakita 12y ago
> that's a democracy problem It's a systemic thinking problem. You seem to want to isolate every piece. That makes it easy to "pass the buck" in a round-robin fashion. It's a problem with democracy, so we should make it cheaper for law enforcement to take away our rights, because progress! Democracy won't be solved until the practice of special interests making most of our laws is removed. The special interests make laws to tighten their stranglehold on our "democracy" and to suppress our freedom. Law enforcement, surveillance, & additional laws becomes more pervasive in our lives so people who wish to exercise their democratic rights are suppressed. It's a "problem with democracy" again. In the mean time, will the democracy problem ever be solved? Will we ever make progress on that front? Are we playing the right game? To improve things, we need to start thinking more holistically, not myopically. A house, or system, divided will fall. > If police can switch from a helicopter to a drone for sime mission, and save 90%, that should be a good thing. Agreed, however what will really happen is 10x the number of drones will be bought & used.
- alkonaut 12y ago
  Wait, if special interests make laws that's another very fundamental democracy problem. This isn't passing the buck, it's pointing out the obvious fact that its all one and the same. Democracy is having all your authorities under scrutiny and control by the people. It's hard. In a state with unbelievable amounts spent on lobbying and with self-monitoring intelligence authorities, there are certainly things to work on. Imagine a country where corporations can't sponsor political campaigns. Or where surveillance isn't monitored by secret courts applying secret laws. Democracy isn't black or white, it's always a shade of gray.
  - briantakita 12y ago
    > Democracy is having all your authorities under scrutiny and control by the people. It's hard. Agreed. The population needs to be at a point where it can handle the responsibility of having discernment. They need to see beyond the illusions spun by those who wish to suppress the mind. > Imagine a country where corporations can't sponsor political campaigns. Or where surveillance isn't monitored by secret courts applying secret laws. That would be wonderful! I hope we get there soon. These are basic tools used to keep the current systems in power. The people who wish to dominate us will use technology to keep people enslaved in the current 9-7, pay you taxes, buy lots of things, spend your life commuting, live the generic American Dream, don't decide what your actual dream is, culture. My opinion; the system is run by intelligent and malevolent souls who make the money, impose culture, have massive influence, & power. If they are hell bent on dominion, do you think they want to allow transparency in how decisions are made? IMO, that will never happen with the current structure. They will simply take "Democracy" and redefine it to what we see today. I think we agree that it's up to the people to take their power back. > Democracy isn't black or white, it's always a shade of gray. I hear that. However, there are still dualities at play. We can go in different directions. Toward thriving or toward death.