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This article misses some of the very good reasons to work at a Megacorp in terms of job security. I know, I know, it's one of those things that developers of ou

by edanm 12y ago

This article misses some of the very good reasons to work at a Megacorp in terms of job security. I know, I know, it's one of those things that developers of our generation have been taught not to care about. "No job is secure", right? The truth is, startups are much less secure, have in many cases serious problems in terms of future opportunities. And most importantly - despite saying "the job market is great, you can always find another job", this is just historically false. Please, read what Patrick Mckenzie has to say on the matter here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7611848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7611848 And Thomas Ptacek's writing on this as well here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7612575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7612575 "When Sonicity failed in 2001, I had a track record as a lead developer on a successful, well-reviewed enterprise product, the lead engineering role at an ISP that might still have been among Chicago's most popular, and research publications at least one of which has a cite record that a lot of ACM journal submissions would envy. Not to mention, I had cofounded a company that had raised a significant amount of money. I was living in San Francisco at the time. I had to move to Ann Arbor to find my next job."

tomphoolery 12y ago
Startups might force you to leave because they die, but giant corporations will make you WANT to leave because they're terrible to work for. This is more of a general note than anything else (as in, not just programmers), but many of my friends who have taken corporate jobs have ended up leaving them for something else, like a startup or consulting shop, because while the pay was great, the work was boring and the culture was just awful. Startups can be like that too, but generally even if they are you have way more power to change things. It's all a trade-off. You trade the fun of constant change for possibly better, but definitely more reliable, compensation. That is, until your company starts downsizing because someone up top bought 1 too many Ferraris.
- timthorn 12y ago
  > giant corporations will make you WANT to leave because they're terrible to work for Some might be. Some are great fun to work at.
  - rquantz 12y ago
    I'd love a list of big corporations that are actually great to work for. It seems like Google is in this camp (I know, not for everyone, but it seems like most people have positive experiences there), maybe Facebook. I hear mixed things about Microsoft. What are the top ten BigCorps to work at as a developer?
    - count 12y ago
      This is pretty easy. All of them, if you're on the right team, working on the right project. Broad generalizations are pretty useless for something so intensely personal.
      - rquantz 12y ago
        Ok, so it's possible to have a great experience at any huge tech company. That doesn't mean there aren't some with a better chance than others (it also doesn't mean that there are). Also, while everyone experiences things differently, I think there are probably some things that most people will agree on as good things and bad things in an employer. I will venture to name some: The opportunity to work on hard/interesting problems; good salary/benefits relative to the industry; the company is interested in advancing your career/training you to be better when you leave than when you came in; the company places an emphasis on engineering rather than treating it like an unfortunate necessity; programmers are given some level of autonomy or self-determination, the structure is not overly hierarchical; the company tracks developer productivity in reasonable ways rather than based on LOC or ass-time in seat. There are probably a lot of other things that could go on that list, and at some companies, I'm sure that all of these really depend on where you are in the organization. But I can't believe that these and other things can't be influenced by corporate policy and practice, and that there aren't some companies that make these sorts of things a priority when others don't. All that being said, I asked the question because I've never worked at a big company before, and maybe I'm totally off base. I was genuinely curious. I'd be happy to hear people's impressions of different companies, or a real explanation for why all big companies are the same and none of them are any better than any others at keeping their developers happy. But just waving your hands doesn't seem any more helpful than overbroad generalizations.
throwaway5752 12y ago
Regarding tptacek - 2001 was by far and away the worse tech job market of the last 20 years. There are advantages to the job security that either approach offers. If you can be a successful and well-referenced member of multiple startups, then you are a known quantity for groups trying to start a company. Also, your skills are more likely to be closer to the cutting edge and in greater demand. Finding that next job in startups is always going to get tougher as you get into your 30s and 40s and your salary is more expensive. So corporate jobs have the edge as far as having a clear-cut 40 year career path at the same place. But you risk falling into a middle management trap... I wouldn't really want to be job hunting after spending 20 years as a front line manager at IBM, for instance (although that would be a lucrative 20 year career).

by edanm 12y ago

tomphoolery 12y ago

Startups might force you to leave because they die, but giant corporations will make you WANT to leave because they're terrible to work for. This is more of a general note than anything else (as in, not just programmers), but many of my friends who have taken corporate jobs have ended up leaving them for something else, like a startup or consulting shop, because while the pay was great, the work was boring and the culture was just awful. Startups can be like that too, but generally even if they are you have way more power to change things. It's all a trade-off. You trade the fun of constant change for possibly better, but definitely more reliable, compensation. That is, until your company starts downsizing because someone up top bought 1 too many Ferraris.

timthorn 12y ago
> giant corporations will make you WANT to leave because they're terrible to work for Some might be. Some are great fun to work at.
- rquantz 12y ago
  I'd love a list of big corporations that are actually great to work for. It seems like Google is in this camp (I know, not for everyone, but it seems like most people have positive experiences there), maybe Facebook. I hear mixed things about Microsoft. What are the top ten BigCorps to work at as a developer?
  - count 12y ago
    This is pretty easy. All of them, if you're on the right team, working on the right project. Broad generalizations are pretty useless for something so intensely personal.
    - rquantz 12y ago
      Ok, so it's possible to have a great experience at any huge tech company. That doesn't mean there aren't some with a better chance than others (it also doesn't mean that there are). Also, while everyone experiences things differently, I think there are probably some things that most people will agree on as good things and bad things in an employer. I will venture to name some: The opportunity to work on hard/interesting problems; good salary/benefits relative to the industry; the company is interested in advancing your career/training you to be better when you leave than when you came in; the company places an emphasis on engineering rather than treating it like an unfortunate necessity; programmers are given some level of autonomy or self-determination, the structure is not overly hierarchical; the company tracks developer productivity in reasonable ways rather than based on LOC or ass-time in seat. There are probably a lot of other things that could go on that list, and at some companies, I'm sure that all of these really depend on where you are in the organization. But I can't believe that these and other things can't be influenced by corporate policy and practice, and that there aren't some companies that make these sorts of things a priority when others don't. All that being said, I asked the question because I've never worked at a big company before, and maybe I'm totally off base. I was genuinely curious. I'd be happy to hear people's impressions of different companies, or a real explanation for why all big companies are the same and none of them are any better than any others at keeping their developers happy. But just waving your hands doesn't seem any more helpful than overbroad generalizations.

throwaway5752 12y ago

Regarding tptacek - 2001 was by far and away the worse tech job market of the last 20 years. There are advantages to the job security that either approach offers. If you can be a successful and well-referenced member of multiple startups, then you are a known quantity for groups trying to start a company. Also, your skills are more likely to be closer to the cutting edge and in greater demand. Finding that next job in startups is always going to get tougher as you get into your 30s and 40s and your salary is more expensive. So corporate jobs have the edge as far as having a clear-cut 40 year career path at the same place. But you risk falling into a middle management trap... I wouldn't really want to be job hunting after spending 20 years as a front line manager at IBM, for instance (although that would be a lucrative 20 year career).