5 ms·

Honestly, I don't like this kind of condescending comments. I'm european too and I hear this kind of statements all the time. We Europeans in general and parti

Honestly, I don't like this kind of condescending comments. I'm european too and I hear this kind of statements all the time. We Europeans in general and particular Scandinavians have it very easy to judge in our warm and cuddly nests. A lot of what is wrong in the U.S. today goes back to our own absolutely unparalleled failure in the roughly 40 years between 1940 until 1980. I think the American people could be far more powerful and demanding if they weren't hindered by their absurd notion of "socialism". And the reason why the politians can pull this term out of the cage in order to scare and control their folks is rooted in our continent.

Dewie 12y ago
> A lot of what is wrong in the U.S. today goes back to our own absolutely unparalleled failure in the roughly 40 years between 1940 until 1980. Please explain.
- fantomass 12y ago
  Ok, I see, I dind't phrase it carefully enough - sorry. I meant what happend in Europe, not in the U.S. Here's my very very very unhealty simplifictation of how the lack of public funding of public services and the events in europe are related. underfunded schools > public spending in general > fiscal quote > "washington" > elections > cultural reflexes > "socialism" > libertarianism/Reagan > Europe > cold war > socialism > WW II
  - Dewie 12y ago
    You can't blame Europe for America's Red Scare. That's wholly their own choice. And "socialism" ala Western Europe is totally different to communism ala the Soviet Union, so when Americans conflate the two that is their own choice, also. (And why would Western Europe be setting a bad example with their 'socialism', anyway?) America had it relatively swell after WWII. Things went so well for so long that they thought that the American Way was indestructible. Again, how is that 'Europes" fault?
    - mrow84 12y ago
      > Things went so well for so long that they thought that the American Way was indestructible. Again, how is that 'Europes" fault? You appear to acknowledge this, but just in case: it's our (Europeans') fault because we had two massive, hugely expensive, wars, which the Americans funded, providing them with an economic security that further compounded their preexisting view of their own exceptionalism. This means that rather than appreciating the degree to which their position of strength was obtained through historical circumstance, they see it solely as a product of the superiority of their own way of life. edit: Of more relevance to the story, this is interesting, though perhaps not to everyone's taste: http://www.philosophersmail.com/capitalism/the-rich-should-stop-giving-so-much-of-their-money-away/ http://www.philosophersmail.com/capitalism/the-rich-should-s...
    - fantomass 12y ago
      I've once gave a lecture about one aspect of Hegels philosophy of law (inside his political philosophy). Hegel died in 1830. No matter how do you evaluate Hegels work, his ideals etc., it is absolutely stunning to see on which level he and others discussed this matter. And the "others" where especially important, because the role of the state and a nation where discussed not only in the ivory tower but also in broader public. Fast forward to now. We made huge progress in applied science and technology, but how do we discuss and think about things like our freedom today? Compared to 200 years ago a cnn/fox/whatever discussion is nothing more then the mumbling of a patient in his terminal stage in dementia. How did we loose all that? Why the degression? The person who declared and showed how to destroy the state, the establishment and burn everything down was Hitler. His first target was to destroy the political apparatus, and he did. After the war most european countries where politicaly weakened. So the U.S. was left with basically one true opponent, the soviet union. But this system was more of a dictatorship so it wasnt really a competion between states, but more a (cold) war led by nuclear threat. So in the end, America won and showed an groth rate in global economical power unparalleled in history. And where money is there is power. So in the end the role of the state was very much diminished, and this laid the groundwork for Reagan. And lot of the things the U.S. struggle today are the result of Reagans tax revolution.
      - 12y ago

Dewie 12y ago

> A lot of what is wrong in the U.S. today goes back to our own absolutely unparalleled failure in the roughly 40 years between 1940 until 1980. Please explain.

fantomass 12y ago
Ok, I see, I dind't phrase it carefully enough - sorry. I meant what happend in Europe, not in the U.S. Here's my very very very unhealty simplifictation of how the lack of public funding of public services and the events in europe are related. underfunded schools > public spending in general > fiscal quote > "washington" > elections > cultural reflexes > "socialism" > libertarianism/Reagan > Europe > cold war > socialism > WW II
- Dewie 12y ago
  You can't blame Europe for America's Red Scare. That's wholly their own choice. And "socialism" ala Western Europe is totally different to communism ala the Soviet Union, so when Americans conflate the two that is their own choice, also. (And why would Western Europe be setting a bad example with their 'socialism', anyway?) America had it relatively swell after WWII. Things went so well for so long that they thought that the American Way was indestructible. Again, how is that 'Europes" fault?
  - mrow84 12y ago
    > Things went so well for so long that they thought that the American Way was indestructible. Again, how is that 'Europes" fault? You appear to acknowledge this, but just in case: it's our (Europeans') fault because we had two massive, hugely expensive, wars, which the Americans funded, providing them with an economic security that further compounded their preexisting view of their own exceptionalism. This means that rather than appreciating the degree to which their position of strength was obtained through historical circumstance, they see it solely as a product of the superiority of their own way of life. edit: Of more relevance to the story, this is interesting, though perhaps not to everyone's taste: http://www.philosophersmail.com/capitalism/the-rich-should-stop-giving-so-much-of-their-money-away/ http://www.philosophersmail.com/capitalism/the-rich-should-s...
  - fantomass 12y ago
    I've once gave a lecture about one aspect of Hegels philosophy of law (inside his political philosophy). Hegel died in 1830. No matter how do you evaluate Hegels work, his ideals etc., it is absolutely stunning to see on which level he and others discussed this matter. And the "others" where especially important, because the role of the state and a nation where discussed not only in the ivory tower but also in broader public. Fast forward to now. We made huge progress in applied science and technology, but how do we discuss and think about things like our freedom today? Compared to 200 years ago a cnn/fox/whatever discussion is nothing more then the mumbling of a patient in his terminal stage in dementia. How did we loose all that? Why the degression? The person who declared and showed how to destroy the state, the establishment and burn everything down was Hitler. His first target was to destroy the political apparatus, and he did. After the war most european countries where politicaly weakened. So the U.S. was left with basically one true opponent, the soviet union. But this system was more of a dictatorship so it wasnt really a competion between states, but more a (cold) war led by nuclear threat. So in the end, America won and showed an groth rate in global economical power unparalleled in history. And where money is there is power. So in the end the role of the state was very much diminished, and this laid the groundwork for Reagan. And lot of the things the U.S. struggle today are the result of Reagans tax revolution.
    - 12y ago