4 ms·

Racial profiling, three strikes rule, and the drug war for starters.

by bluthru 12y ago

xienze 12y ago
Pales in comparison to baby daddies up and leaving the household. That's a cultural problem.
- bluthru 12y ago
  I'd say it's more of an economic problem. Sex is free. The pill, IUD, nuvaring, and other forms of low-effort birth control are not. Combine that with the fact that a lot of poor young women have nothing to give their lives purpose except a baby, and all of a sudden single-parent demand is created for procreation.
- trustfundbaby 12y ago
  > Pales in comparison to baby daddies up and leaving the household Thats an interesting assertion. Do you have any data to back that up? ... because I'd posit that these cultural "problems" that you mention a. pale in comparison to the cumulative effect of Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of explicit racist housing policy from the federal government b. are probably a side effect of a.
  - NoPiece 12y ago
    The best data to support his assertion is the out of wedlock birthrate. Up until the 60s, in spite of all the horrific racism, the out of wedlock birth rate was still below 20% for african americans. As of 2010, it was 73%. http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/files/2013/06/moynihan-births-wedlock.jpg http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/files/2013/06/m...
    - trustfundbaby 12y ago
      Right, but you could look at the incarceration rates and mortality rates for young black males which probably coincide with that spike for the explanation. Women aren't going to not have children just because there are no men to marry, (my opinion here) as long as they can have children they will try to raise them on their own if they have to. I'd argue that slavery, racism and institutionalized discrimination, which led to packing blacks into housing ghettos or poorer neighborhoods in addition to heavy policing because of all that is the cause of what you're seeing and not the other way around. Additionally, as you can see the rates of out of wedlock births has exploded all around (white rates went from 2% to 30%, notably white society has collapsed from this astounding increase) which means that it is probably also pretty accepted by society which makes it more likely to happen.
      - NoPiece 12y ago
        I agree that the incarceration rate (drug war) and cultural acceptance have been major factors. The data doesn't support that slavery, racism, housing discrimination were causes. When those terrible things were in full effect, the out of wedlock birth rate was flat and relatively low. Lower than the white out of wedlock birthrate is today. If you look at the large uptick in the late 60's and 70's, it points more to the drug war,the rise of the welfare state, and cultural acceptance as major factors.
    - makomk 12y ago
      One possible contributor to that is the creation of government-subsidised housing programs that forbade fathers from living with the family, which many black families relied on due to poverty, systematic racial discrimination, poor access to education, and housing discrimination which made it far harder and more expensive for them to buy homes than anyone else.
- mapt 12y ago
  A cultural problem that can surely be put down to genetics rather than the fact that a large portion of the current generation of black urban youth have being raised by their grandparents because their parents are dead, or in jail on drug arrests - with many not even making it to adulthood without being harassed & arrested by drug warriors. In practice, the war on drugs simply drove our market for drugs into the ghetto, robbed them of the ability to regulate that market without violence & warlordism, and then harassed the inhabitants endlessly in a manner largely indistinguishable from earlier policies of racial persecution. Stop and frisk that. A black male born in 1991 has a 29% chance of spending time in prison at some point in his life. Nearly one in three African American males aged 20–29 are under some form of criminal justice supervision whether imprisoned, jailed, on parole or probation. One out of nine African American men will be incarcerated between the ages of 20 and 34. On an average day in 1996, more black male high school dropouts aged 20–35 were in custody than in paid employment; by 1999, over one-fifth of black non-college men in their early 30’s had prison records. How would the prospects for college and middle-class employment look like if no one you grew up knowing had parents who were in a position to help pay for college? ... This is not something that is out of our control to fix, if we decide to. Affirmative action, a social taboo on overt racism and institutional legal equality - all three had a modest impact on the progress of de facto racial integration & equality (measured in, let's say... educational attainment, & household net worth). But the drug war, in urban areas that were still largely segregated, had a negative impact that swamped all of these, and generated giant gaping tumors in 'black culture', as you put it, that we're going to be dealing with for generations. The fact that we've largely dismantled due process for the impoverished to help pay for all this, that our use of leaded gasoline in the 20th century & ensuing soil contamination actually significantly compromised neurological functioning in urban populations (across races), that we assiduously attack welfare programs under the banner of suppressing an inferior 'culture of dependence', and the policy of warehousing the poor in housing projects - these things are not inconsequential.
trustfundbaby 12y ago
Add redlining and housing discrimination after World War II that stopped black people EN MASSE from upward mobility at the time that most people from other backgrounds were benefitting from the housing boom, and its easy to see why African Americans are still cemented to the bottom of the socio economic strata in America.

Racial profiling, three strikes rule, and the drug war for starters.

by bluthru 12y ago

Racial profiling, three strikes rule, and the drug war for starters.

xienze 12y ago

Pales in comparison to baby daddies up and leaving the household. That's a cultural problem.

bluthru 12y ago
I'd say it's more of an economic problem. Sex is free. The pill, IUD, nuvaring, and other forms of low-effort birth control are not. Combine that with the fact that a lot of poor young women have nothing to give their lives purpose except a baby, and all of a sudden single-parent demand is created for procreation.
trustfundbaby 12y ago
> Pales in comparison to baby daddies up and leaving the household Thats an interesting assertion. Do you have any data to back that up? ... because I'd posit that these cultural "problems" that you mention a. pale in comparison to the cumulative effect of Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of explicit racist housing policy from the federal government b. are probably a side effect of a.
- NoPiece 12y ago
  The best data to support his assertion is the out of wedlock birthrate. Up until the 60s, in spite of all the horrific racism, the out of wedlock birth rate was still below 20% for african americans. As of 2010, it was 73%. http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/files/2013/06/moynihan-births-wedlock.jpg http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/files/2013/06/m...
  - trustfundbaby 12y ago
    Right, but you could look at the incarceration rates and mortality rates for young black males which probably coincide with that spike for the explanation. Women aren't going to not have children just because there are no men to marry, (my opinion here) as long as they can have children they will try to raise them on their own if they have to. I'd argue that slavery, racism and institutionalized discrimination, which led to packing blacks into housing ghettos or poorer neighborhoods in addition to heavy policing because of all that is the cause of what you're seeing and not the other way around. Additionally, as you can see the rates of out of wedlock births has exploded all around (white rates went from 2% to 30%, notably white society has collapsed from this astounding increase) which means that it is probably also pretty accepted by society which makes it more likely to happen.
    - NoPiece 12y ago
      I agree that the incarceration rate (drug war) and cultural acceptance have been major factors. The data doesn't support that slavery, racism, housing discrimination were causes. When those terrible things were in full effect, the out of wedlock birth rate was flat and relatively low. Lower than the white out of wedlock birthrate is today. If you look at the large uptick in the late 60's and 70's, it points more to the drug war,the rise of the welfare state, and cultural acceptance as major factors.
  - makomk 12y ago
    One possible contributor to that is the creation of government-subsidised housing programs that forbade fathers from living with the family, which many black families relied on due to poverty, systematic racial discrimination, poor access to education, and housing discrimination which made it far harder and more expensive for them to buy homes than anyone else.
mapt 12y ago
A cultural problem that can surely be put down to genetics rather than the fact that a large portion of the current generation of black urban youth have being raised by their grandparents because their parents are dead, or in jail on drug arrests - with many not even making it to adulthood without being harassed & arrested by drug warriors. In practice, the war on drugs simply drove our market for drugs into the ghetto, robbed them of the ability to regulate that market without violence & warlordism, and then harassed the inhabitants endlessly in a manner largely indistinguishable from earlier policies of racial persecution. Stop and frisk that. A black male born in 1991 has a 29% chance of spending time in prison at some point in his life. Nearly one in three African American males aged 20–29 are under some form of criminal justice supervision whether imprisoned, jailed, on parole or probation. One out of nine African American men will be incarcerated between the ages of 20 and 34. On an average day in 1996, more black male high school dropouts aged 20–35 were in custody than in paid employment; by 1999, over one-fifth of black non-college men in their early 30’s had prison records. How would the prospects for college and middle-class employment look like if no one you grew up knowing had parents who were in a position to help pay for college? ... This is not something that is out of our control to fix, if we decide to. Affirmative action, a social taboo on overt racism and institutional legal equality - all three had a modest impact on the progress of de facto racial integration & equality (measured in, let's say... educational attainment, & household net worth). But the drug war, in urban areas that were still largely segregated, had a negative impact that swamped all of these, and generated giant gaping tumors in 'black culture', as you put it, that we're going to be dealing with for generations. The fact that we've largely dismantled due process for the impoverished to help pay for all this, that our use of leaded gasoline in the 20th century & ensuing soil contamination actually significantly compromised neurological functioning in urban populations (across races), that we assiduously attack welfare programs under the banner of suppressing an inferior 'culture of dependence', and the policy of warehousing the poor in housing projects - these things are not inconsequential.

trustfundbaby 12y ago

Add redlining and housing discrimination after World War II that stopped black people EN MASSE from upward mobility at the time that most people from other backgrounds were benefitting from the housing boom, and its easy to see why African Americans are still cemented to the bottom of the socio economic strata in America.