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>>Technical people often underestimate the value of good communication. Not just underestimate, even outright condemn. Like the people who defend Linus's form

by smtddr 12y ago

>>Technical people often underestimate the value of good communication. Not just underestimate, even outright condemn. Like the people who defend Linus's form of "communication" on the kernel mailing list as "to the point" or "efficient". Anyone who thinks that's an acceptable style of communication from/to any human being is wrong and a perfect example of why the tech companies in general should probably make their engineers attend a speech and/or social relationships class. Somewhere along the line, "engineering culture" decided any communication protocols outside of TCP, UDP and syscalls are a waste of time.

philwelch 12y ago
Linus excels at communication. He makes it crystal clear what he's trying to convey and the standard he's setting, and has coordinated the development of the most widely-deployed kernel on earth entirely via email for decades. He communicates perfectly well. He's an asshole on occasion, but that's not the same as communicating poorly.
- smtddr 12y ago
  Completely disagree. I don't care how popular his kernel is; his communication style is ridiculous and the fact that there are so many devs that have no problem working for him isn't a sign that his communication is good.... it's a sign all the people working with him don't realize, or ignore, or accept his ridiculous behavior and is just an example of why the tech industry needs a communications/social relations course for a lot of engineers.
  - philwelch 12y ago
    Are you judging by results or by your own subjective taste? Because I find results more interesting (and persuasive).
    - smtddr 12y ago
      Even if maximum efficiency is achieved by his style of communication, I still don't agree with it. Efficiency is not more important than being civil. "Ends don't justify the means" kinda thing... but I know I'm not going to convince you in this thread; and you're definitely not going to convince me otherwise. There are too many rude people in tech that don't know how to communicate properly with people. Rudeness has somehow become acceptable in the tech-industry so they can't see the problem they have.... and it _is_ a problem.
      - philwelch 12y ago
        I'm trying to draw a distinction between effective communication and not being an asshole. They are different problems. One is a problem of ability and the other is a problem of temperament. Conversely to Linus, someone can be perfectly polite and pleasant but fail to communicate effectively because they don't convey any meaningful information. Such a person would have poor communication skills, but not be an asshole. Linus has good communication skills, but is an asshole.

by smtddr 12y ago

philwelch 12y ago

Linus excels at communication. He makes it crystal clear what he's trying to convey and the standard he's setting, and has coordinated the development of the most widely-deployed kernel on earth entirely via email for decades. He communicates perfectly well. He's an asshole on occasion, but that's not the same as communicating poorly.

smtddr 12y ago
Completely disagree. I don't care how popular his kernel is; his communication style is ridiculous and the fact that there are so many devs that have no problem working for him isn't a sign that his communication is good.... it's a sign all the people working with him don't realize, or ignore, or accept his ridiculous behavior and is just an example of why the tech industry needs a communications/social relations course for a lot of engineers.
- philwelch 12y ago
  Are you judging by results or by your own subjective taste? Because I find results more interesting (and persuasive).
  - smtddr 12y ago
    Even if maximum efficiency is achieved by his style of communication, I still don't agree with it. Efficiency is not more important than being civil. "Ends don't justify the means" kinda thing... but I know I'm not going to convince you in this thread; and you're definitely not going to convince me otherwise. There are too many rude people in tech that don't know how to communicate properly with people. Rudeness has somehow become acceptable in the tech-industry so they can't see the problem they have.... and it _is_ a problem.
    - philwelch 12y ago
      I'm trying to draw a distinction between effective communication and not being an asshole. They are different problems. One is a problem of ability and the other is a problem of temperament. Conversely to Linus, someone can be perfectly polite and pleasant but fail to communicate effectively because they don't convey any meaningful information. Such a person would have poor communication skills, but not be an asshole. Linus has good communication skills, but is an asshole.