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I was recently in an 11 week class for Machine Learning. 3 of the best students in this course were females. What was funny to me was how gender was never rea

by JPKab 12y ago

I was recently in an 11 week class for Machine Learning. 3 of the best students in this course were females. What was funny to me was how gender was never really an issue for anyone. Competent people are typically awestruck by smart people who are displaying brilliance. I was always cracking jokes about "well, I'm not (insert her name here), so I'll have to go look at her code before I can do that." The big difference in treatment occurred with the lone female in the course who wasn't a good coder. Despite her having more experience than many in the class, she quickly fell behind. I witnessed a vicious cycle, in which she (probably due to the way she had been treated in the past) was ultra defensive when criticism came down, which then caused a difference in how she was criticized, which was then picked up on by her...... She complained to me about being discriminated against for her gender. While I'm very sympathetic to females in our industry who suffer at the hands of these brogrammer idiots (anytime I see anything remotely like that kind of behavior, I don't hesitate to LITERALLY GRAB the guy/guys, pull them aside, and give them a menacing rebuke), this was a case in which gender wasn't actually the issue. It was personality. And I have no doubt that gender discrimination in her past helped create this personality. Such a challenge to deal with this.

ufmace 12y ago
Interesting touchstone for something that I've always thought about these things, but that seems to go against the popular opinion here. From my general experiences, I believe that the majority of what appears to be sexism, racism, etc is actually about respect, and not what the poor treatment appears to be about. When a person has self-respect and is generally respected in the peer group, these sorts of ridiculous, cruel, ad-holmium type attacks just don't happen, or vanish about as soon as they start. When a person does not respect themselves, though, or acts in such a way as to lose respect in their group, then there's a certain type of person (mostly those brogrammer idiot types) out there that will seize upon that and attack that person with whatever they think will make them the most uncomfortable and upset. Sexism, racism, bigotry, any way that the person is different from the others, anything that they're insecure or uncomfortable with. The person doesn't really feel that way; they just use it to attack the weak. Of course, that's pretty asshole-ish behavior too, and I'm not sure that I'd call that better than actually being bigoted.
cgriswald 12y ago
It is very common for people to blame external factors for their own shortcomings. Gender descrimination may have played a part in whatever trama made her so defensive, but it also may have played no part at all. Her perception of gender descrimination is skewed, so why would you take it at face value? We are all capable of experiencing events which never actually occured (as she did in your class) and so scapegoats are not necessarily tied to the events and mindset which lead to the problem in the first place.

by JPKab 12y ago

ufmace 12y ago

Interesting touchstone for something that I've always thought about these things, but that seems to go against the popular opinion here. From my general experiences, I believe that the majority of what appears to be sexism, racism, etc is actually about respect, and not what the poor treatment appears to be about. When a person has self-respect and is generally respected in the peer group, these sorts of ridiculous, cruel, ad-holmium type attacks just don't happen, or vanish about as soon as they start. When a person does not respect themselves, though, or acts in such a way as to lose respect in their group, then there's a certain type of person (mostly those brogrammer idiot types) out there that will seize upon that and attack that person with whatever they think will make them the most uncomfortable and upset. Sexism, racism, bigotry, any way that the person is different from the others, anything that they're insecure or uncomfortable with. The person doesn't really feel that way; they just use it to attack the weak. Of course, that's pretty asshole-ish behavior too, and I'm not sure that I'd call that better than actually being bigoted.

cgriswald 12y ago

It is very common for people to blame external factors for their own shortcomings. Gender descrimination may have played a part in whatever trama made her so defensive, but it also may have played no part at all. Her perception of gender descrimination is skewed, so why would you take it at face value? We are all capable of experiencing events which never actually occured (as she did in your class) and so scapegoats are not necessarily tied to the events and mindset which lead to the problem in the first place.