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A quota implies there are limited spots. There are not. Google will hire as many qualified people as it can. These initiatives are about getting more diverse ca

by enneff 12y ago

A quota implies there are limited spots. There are not. Google will hire as many qualified people as it can. These initiatives are about getting more diverse candidates in the recruiting pipeline. We are not turning away any qualified white dudes!

xienze 12y ago
Perhaps "quota" is the wrong term. Yes Google doesn't have a limit on how many people they can hire in total, but in the interest of diversity they are likely to _limit_ the number of "X" people they hire (where "X" is some over-represented ethnic group).
- enneff 12y ago
  Uh, no, we're not. That is an entirely baseless assertion.
  - xienze 12y ago
    So you work at Google but you're having trouble grasping simple mathematics? OK then. Let's break it down: X is an over-represented group of Googlers threatening their diversity. Let's say it's males. Y is, let's say, women. Z is the total number of current Googlers. In this case, 0.7Z = X and 0.3Z = Y. (70% men, 30% women). Still with me? If Google were to continue hiring X at the current rate (i.e., 70% of all candidates hired), then the diversity of Z will not change with respect to X and Y. Therefore, in order to achieve the desired balance, Y must be >> X, be that through hiring (i.e., hire more Y than X) or firing (fire more X than Y). Rinse and repeat for other over- and under-represented groups at Google. I'm not sure why this concept is lost on you.
    - enneff 12y ago
      Maybe you didn't read my earlier post where I said that Google will hire as many qualified people as it can. There is no upper limit. Nobody is excluded because of quotas or whatever. If Google has 100 X's and 10 Y's and hires 10 X's and 1 Y every year, the ratio of X's to Y's stays the same. If Google increases the number of Y's they hire each year to 2, the ratio of X's to Y's decreases. Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about this.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  As has been stated already in this thread the pool of qualified candidates forces Google to hire fewer people than they would prefer and their efforts on diversity include efforts to expand the pool of qualified candidates. They don't need to limit (or reduce) hiring (or retention) of any group to achieve diversity. The biggest diversity win for them would be expanded hiring in all groups, but greatest in those currently underrepresented.
  - xienze 12y ago
    > and their efforts on diversity include efforts to expand the pool of qualified candidates OK, so it sounds like they've got a fix that'll only take a couple decades to implement. In the meantime, how do you think Google is going to improve their minority percentages in the absence of qualified minorities?
    - enneff 12y ago
      Not in the way you arrogantly and incorrectly keep suggesting. Google is not going to in any way limit the intake of qualified candidates. It is mission critical for us to hire as many talented people as possible. Most teams at the company really need more people.
      - xienze 12y ago
        You are aware that companies set hiring goals every year/quarter, right? I get that Google is "special" and printing money at the moment but typically companies don't have the luxury of saying "we have no limits! Hire as many people as you want!!!" Google will be no exception. Now -- when Google finally _does_ have to cope with the fact that they can't just increase the number of people they hire every year AND they want to tilt the ratio of X to Y, then what?
        enneff 12y ago
        Fortunately we don't have to deal with that issue. But it's nice of you to assume the worst of us in that hypothetical situation. I would assume that when that happens we would raise the hiring bar. And by that time there would be more diverse candidates in the pipeline, so we would naturally get a more diverse spread of new hires. I strongly doubt we would sacrifice our long held policy of "hiring the best" for the sake of diversity. It flies in the face of our corporate culture. My understanding of Google's diversity efforts is that they are centered around a) encouraging candidates from more diverse backgrounds to apply to Google (many, particularly women, do not believe they are as good as their male counterparts for social reasons), and b) encouraging people from diverse backgrounds to get into computer science. I have been involved in both these efforts at Google. And, to be quite honest, only a sociopath would see a problem with these initiatives.

by enneff 12y ago

xienze 12y ago

Perhaps "quota" is the wrong term. Yes Google doesn't have a limit on how many people they can hire in total, but in the interest of diversity they are likely to _limit_ the number of "X" people they hire (where "X" is some over-represented ethnic group).

enneff 12y ago
Uh, no, we're not. That is an entirely baseless assertion.
- xienze 12y ago
  So you work at Google but you're having trouble grasping simple mathematics? OK then. Let's break it down: X is an over-represented group of Googlers threatening their diversity. Let's say it's males. Y is, let's say, women. Z is the total number of current Googlers. In this case, 0.7Z = X and 0.3Z = Y. (70% men, 30% women). Still with me? If Google were to continue hiring X at the current rate (i.e., 70% of all candidates hired), then the diversity of Z will not change with respect to X and Y. Therefore, in order to achieve the desired balance, Y must be >> X, be that through hiring (i.e., hire more Y than X) or firing (fire more X than Y). Rinse and repeat for other over- and under-represented groups at Google. I'm not sure why this concept is lost on you.
  - enneff 12y ago
    Maybe you didn't read my earlier post where I said that Google will hire as many qualified people as it can. There is no upper limit. Nobody is excluded because of quotas or whatever. If Google has 100 X's and 10 Y's and hires 10 X's and 1 Y every year, the ratio of X's to Y's stays the same. If Google increases the number of Y's they hire each year to 2, the ratio of X's to Y's decreases. Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about this.
dragonwriter 12y ago
As has been stated already in this thread the pool of qualified candidates forces Google to hire fewer people than they would prefer and their efforts on diversity include efforts to expand the pool of qualified candidates. They don't need to limit (or reduce) hiring (or retention) of any group to achieve diversity. The biggest diversity win for them would be expanded hiring in all groups, but greatest in those currently underrepresented.
- xienze 12y ago
  > and their efforts on diversity include efforts to expand the pool of qualified candidates OK, so it sounds like they've got a fix that'll only take a couple decades to implement. In the meantime, how do you think Google is going to improve their minority percentages in the absence of qualified minorities?
  - enneff 12y ago
    Not in the way you arrogantly and incorrectly keep suggesting. Google is not going to in any way limit the intake of qualified candidates. It is mission critical for us to hire as many talented people as possible. Most teams at the company really need more people.
    - xienze 12y ago
      You are aware that companies set hiring goals every year/quarter, right? I get that Google is "special" and printing money at the moment but typically companies don't have the luxury of saying "we have no limits! Hire as many people as you want!!!" Google will be no exception. Now -- when Google finally _does_ have to cope with the fact that they can't just increase the number of people they hire every year AND they want to tilt the ratio of X to Y, then what?
      - enneff 12y ago
        Fortunately we don't have to deal with that issue. But it's nice of you to assume the worst of us in that hypothetical situation. I would assume that when that happens we would raise the hiring bar. And by that time there would be more diverse candidates in the pipeline, so we would naturally get a more diverse spread of new hires. I strongly doubt we would sacrifice our long held policy of "hiring the best" for the sake of diversity. It flies in the face of our corporate culture. My understanding of Google's diversity efforts is that they are centered around a) encouraging candidates from more diverse backgrounds to apply to Google (many, particularly women, do not believe they are as good as their male counterparts for social reasons), and b) encouraging people from diverse backgrounds to get into computer science. I have been involved in both these efforts at Google. And, to be quite honest, only a sociopath would see a problem with these initiatives.