4 ms·

A. Cheap. B. Healthy. C. Pleasurable. D. Fast/Easy Pick three. ABC = Homecooked meals, ACD = fast food, BCD = eating out, ABD = Soylent. Not complicated. Soyl

by gfodor 12y ago

A. Cheap. B. Healthy. C. Pleasurable. D. Fast/Easy Pick three. ABC = Homecooked meals, ACD = fast food, BCD = eating out, ABD = Soylent. Not complicated. Soylent provides a specific set of design tradeoffs that suit certain situations better than the alternatives.

neurobro 12y ago
At this point I'm skeptical that Soylent fulfills B, as healthy diets include a lot more than 30-40 ingredients in the form of enzymes and nutrients that aren't "essential" but aid metabolism. But I appreciate the fact that they're aiming for ABD and hope they can achieve it as the data rolls in over time. If it tastes like gritty pancake batter, it can't be any worse than a diet of brussels sprouts, turnips, rutabagas, radicchio, eggplant, etc.
- ezyang 12y ago
  I don't know what you are talking about, but all of those vegetables are delicious if cooked properly.
  - neurobro 12y ago
    Apparently I've never cooked any of those properly! Anyway, I'm sure everyone has a few least-favorite veggies that would clear up that sentence (unless they really dislike pancake batter).
    - ktrgardiner 12y ago
      Almost any vegetable tastes amazing sautéed in butter with shallots and garlic. You can also add plain breadcrumbs once done. I say this having just made brussel sprouts that way for dinner. Very simple and very delicious. And I used to hate brussel sprouts.
      - corprew 12y ago
        Brussel sprouts used to be more bitter than they are; farmers have actively been breeding better tasting brussels sprouts. Lots of people who used to hate them and didn't eat them for a number of years find them more pleasant when trying them now.
  - gone35 12y ago
    Not necessarily. Individual expression of TAS2Rs is genetically determined and varies considerably[1]; and so the perceived bitterness of sinigrin-containing vegetables like cabbage (B. oleracea) differs from person to person [2,3]. [1] http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/2/157.full http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/2/157.full [2] http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060918/full/news060918-1.html http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060918/full/news060918-1.htm... [3] http://tools.lifetechnologies.com/content/sfs/manuals/qPCR_learning_kit_studentversion.pdf http://tools.lifetechnologies.com/content/sfs/manuals/qPCR_l...
- gfodor 12y ago
  I'm skeptical too, but the point I'm making here isn't about if Soylent meets these criteria but what the intent behind the design is. I think laying out these criteria show why Soylent's use-cases, at least in theory, are orthogonal to those of other ways of consuming food. (Hence arguments about how Soylent can never replace those things is a just tautology and not a real argument.)
samstave 12y ago
Why is soylent not having a billion dollar DoD contract at this time?
- learc83 12y ago
  Because troops want more variety not less, and because meal replacement drinks have existed for years. The only major difference with Soylent is their target market.
- kenrikm 12y ago
  IIRC one of the big things they had to change with the MREs was to add more variety. Troops get low morale eating the same thing over and over.
  - jonah 12y ago
    My grandfather fought on the front lines in the Pacific Theater during the War. Being at the very end of the supply chain, they got the worse, least desirable MREs after the variety had been cherry-picked by everyone else upstream. I forget exactly which ones they were but it was pretty grim.
  - zheshishei 12y ago
    Luckily, it led to the creation of the MRE pizza. Apparently pizza was the #1 most desired MRE.
- chongli 12y ago
  You'd have a mutiny on your hands if you tried to force all the troops to consume soylent. In no other endeavour is morale more important than the military. These people carry automatic rifles all the time.
  - gojomo 12y ago
    Not for the troops, for the detainees.
- GoldfishCRM 12y ago
the_cat_kittles 12y ago
disagree- home cooked meals can be all four. it certainly takes practice, cooking infrastructure and foresight, but I think cooking at home can significantly beat all other options as the main source of food.
- sutterbomb 12y ago
  I've found that people who don't cook regularly often overestimate how difficult it is to cook at home. Sure you can go big and cook extravagant meals that take loads of prep time and cook time, but you can also saute some fish filets and some vegetables in 20 minutes start to finish - and most of that time you're still free to do other things around the house. Of course this advice might not apply in a 400 sq. ft. NYC studio without two burners and room for two pans, but for most people that's not the issue.
  - nightski 12y ago
    Very true. About 2 years ago I forced myself to learn to cook and it has paid off immensely. I know enjoy it very much, and find cooking a healthy delicious meal to be a quick and painless affair.
    - zheshishei 12y ago
      I cooked for myself for a while in college. I'm not sure if a mash up of pasta, tomato sauce, frozen veggies, and boiled chicken thighs counts as "healthy", but that's pretty much what I had every day. I know how to pan sear a fish and stir fry vegetables, but what I didn't know was how to do grocery shopping for 1 without ending up with wasted/spoiled food. For me, it's not the cooking that's hard, it's the grocery shopping/meal planning.
- gfodor 12y ago
  I agree that cooking at home is often easier than you might expect, but when comparing cooking at home vs. mixing a drink or ordering from a waiter there's a clear difference on the "effort and time" scales we are talking about.
eaurouge 12y ago
You need to be a bit more stingy with your 'B' designation. Jury's still out on Soylent. And eating out, restaurants (in general) optimize for taste, not nutrition.
hackerews 12y ago
E. Scalable supply. You can do all 4 at a point on the supply curve for blueberries for instance... But there's not enough production to feed a significant percent of the population.
elimisteve 12y ago
I'm Steve, and I'm a healthy eater and cheapskate. From 2002 to 2005 I researched nutrition and supplements _a lot_. Long story short, what's cheap, healthy, "pleasurable" (non-sexually), and fast/easy to make? Vegetables, whole-wheat bread or brown rice (pasta), an assortment of nuts, a protein shake (protein powder, milk, flax seed powder, spinach, and blueberries), and vitamins/supplements (multivitamin, fish oil, others I take for brain health/performance). Works great! And when I eat out (again non-sexually) I have chicken breast, turkey, or fish.

by gfodor 12y ago

neurobro 12y ago

At this point I'm skeptical that Soylent fulfills B, as healthy diets include a lot more than 30-40 ingredients in the form of enzymes and nutrients that aren't "essential" but aid metabolism. But I appreciate the fact that they're aiming for ABD and hope they can achieve it as the data rolls in over time. If it tastes like gritty pancake batter, it can't be any worse than a diet of brussels sprouts, turnips, rutabagas, radicchio, eggplant, etc.

ezyang 12y ago
I don't know what you are talking about, but all of those vegetables are delicious if cooked properly.
- neurobro 12y ago
  Apparently I've never cooked any of those properly! Anyway, I'm sure everyone has a few least-favorite veggies that would clear up that sentence (unless they really dislike pancake batter).
  - ktrgardiner 12y ago
    Almost any vegetable tastes amazing sautéed in butter with shallots and garlic. You can also add plain breadcrumbs once done. I say this having just made brussel sprouts that way for dinner. Very simple and very delicious. And I used to hate brussel sprouts.
    - corprew 12y ago
      Brussel sprouts used to be more bitter than they are; farmers have actively been breeding better tasting brussels sprouts. Lots of people who used to hate them and didn't eat them for a number of years find them more pleasant when trying them now.
- gone35 12y ago
  Not necessarily. Individual expression of TAS2Rs is genetically determined and varies considerably[1]; and so the perceived bitterness of sinigrin-containing vegetables like cabbage (B. oleracea) differs from person to person [2,3]. [1] http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/2/157.full http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/2/157.full [2] http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060918/full/news060918-1.html http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060918/full/news060918-1.htm... [3] http://tools.lifetechnologies.com/content/sfs/manuals/qPCR_learning_kit_studentversion.pdf http://tools.lifetechnologies.com/content/sfs/manuals/qPCR_l...
gfodor 12y ago
I'm skeptical too, but the point I'm making here isn't about if Soylent meets these criteria but what the intent behind the design is. I think laying out these criteria show why Soylent's use-cases, at least in theory, are orthogonal to those of other ways of consuming food. (Hence arguments about how Soylent can never replace those things is a just tautology and not a real argument.)

samstave 12y ago

Why is soylent not having a billion dollar DoD contract at this time?

learc83 12y ago
Because troops want more variety not less, and because meal replacement drinks have existed for years. The only major difference with Soylent is their target market.
kenrikm 12y ago
IIRC one of the big things they had to change with the MREs was to add more variety. Troops get low morale eating the same thing over and over.
- jonah 12y ago
  My grandfather fought on the front lines in the Pacific Theater during the War. Being at the very end of the supply chain, they got the worse, least desirable MREs after the variety had been cherry-picked by everyone else upstream. I forget exactly which ones they were but it was pretty grim.
- zheshishei 12y ago
  Luckily, it led to the creation of the MRE pizza. Apparently pizza was the #1 most desired MRE.
chongli 12y ago
You'd have a mutiny on your hands if you tried to force all the troops to consume soylent. In no other endeavour is morale more important than the military. These people carry automatic rifles all the time.
- gojomo 12y ago
  Not for the troops, for the detainees.
GoldfishCRM 12y ago

the_cat_kittles 12y ago

disagree- home cooked meals can be all four. it certainly takes practice, cooking infrastructure and foresight, but I think cooking at home can significantly beat all other options as the main source of food.

sutterbomb 12y ago
I've found that people who don't cook regularly often overestimate how difficult it is to cook at home. Sure you can go big and cook extravagant meals that take loads of prep time and cook time, but you can also saute some fish filets and some vegetables in 20 minutes start to finish - and most of that time you're still free to do other things around the house. Of course this advice might not apply in a 400 sq. ft. NYC studio without two burners and room for two pans, but for most people that's not the issue.
- nightski 12y ago
  Very true. About 2 years ago I forced myself to learn to cook and it has paid off immensely. I know enjoy it very much, and find cooking a healthy delicious meal to be a quick and painless affair.
  - zheshishei 12y ago
    I cooked for myself for a while in college. I'm not sure if a mash up of pasta, tomato sauce, frozen veggies, and boiled chicken thighs counts as "healthy", but that's pretty much what I had every day. I know how to pan sear a fish and stir fry vegetables, but what I didn't know was how to do grocery shopping for 1 without ending up with wasted/spoiled food. For me, it's not the cooking that's hard, it's the grocery shopping/meal planning.
gfodor 12y ago
I agree that cooking at home is often easier than you might expect, but when comparing cooking at home vs. mixing a drink or ordering from a waiter there's a clear difference on the "effort and time" scales we are talking about.

eaurouge 12y ago

You need to be a bit more stingy with your 'B' designation. Jury's still out on Soylent. And eating out, restaurants (in general) optimize for taste, not nutrition.

hackerews 12y ago

E. Scalable supply. You can do all 4 at a point on the supply curve for blueberries for instance... But there's not enough production to feed a significant percent of the population.

elimisteve 12y ago

I'm Steve, and I'm a healthy eater and cheapskate. From 2002 to 2005 I researched nutrition and supplements _a lot_. Long story short, what's cheap, healthy, "pleasurable" (non-sexually), and fast/easy to make? Vegetables, whole-wheat bread or brown rice (pasta), an assortment of nuts, a protein shake (protein powder, milk, flax seed powder, spinach, and blueberries), and vitamins/supplements (multivitamin, fish oil, others I take for brain health/performance). Works great! And when I eat out (again non-sexually) I have chicken breast, turkey, or fish.