7 ms·

Hachette Puts out Response to Amazon Statement

35 points by IBM 12y ago

jeffcox 12y ago
Enough people are getting upset about this that I expect both sides to make apologetic noises and shuffle towards a resolution at an increased pace. As far as finding out what really went down, or what the resolution ends up being I am doubtful at best.
bsimpson 12y ago
Blogspam with no link to the original. Also, that was a lot of words with basically no content: "We publish books. We think books are special. We have not yet reached an agreement with Amazon to keep selling books to them, but we will eventually. Also, we think this is all Amazon's fault and we're not going to consider their proposal to pay our authors in the meantime until after we resolve the contract dispute."
- lnanek2 12y ago
  The French do indeed write like that. You get used to it.
  - gaius 12y ago
    See also Piketty. 1000 pages to say "les Anglo-Saxons, bof!"
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
dang 12y ago
It seems there's no original online source? At least the current url includes the actual statement. We changed it from http://lunch.publishersmarketplace.com/2014/05/hachette-answers-will-discuss-compensating-damage-amazons-demand-dispute-settled/ http://lunch.publishersmarketplace.com/2014/05/hachette-answ..., which weirdly inlines bits of it.
- smoyer 12y ago
  There actually seem to be quite a few "news outlets" that received a press release from Hachette, and yet their own press release page is horribly old: http://www.hachette.com/en/press/press-releases http://www.hachette.com/en/press/press-releases
- lnanek2 12y ago
  New link does seem an improvement over that.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
eck 12y ago
It is kind of amusing how similar this is to the network neutrality debate -- i.e. comcast's dispute with netflix affecting comcast/netflix customer content delivery -- yet with decidedly old-fashioned media.
- valas 12y ago
  Except that there are a lot of alternatives to Amazon with low switching cost to consumers.
  - jtbigwoo 12y ago
    Unless you own a Kindle Paperwhite.
    - joshstrange 12y ago
      How do you figure that? Yes you might not have an ebook store built into your device but you are not locked into ONLY obtaining your ebooks from Amazon.
    - kemayo 12y ago
      You can keep on using your Kindle with other stores...
- graylights 12y ago
  Without an agreement amazon has no right to sell digital copies and certainly no obligation. Comcast made an obligation to deliver content when they agreed to provide internet service to their customers. The digital side of amazon story is not interesting in the slightest. The only real story is them leveraging their print marketplace to put pressure on a digital agreement. It's an abusive hardball tactic but one that large brick and mortar bookstores have done in past. This story shows that publishers are really obsolete. The production doesn't matter anymore with Print-On-Demand and Digital. The main services they offer are distribution and promotion. Many of the publishers have offloaded their distribution to amazon (and the like) and unless you're a big author the promotion is virtually non-existent. One could also argue they provide editing but now there are editors for hire to support indie writers.
moron4hire 12y ago
>>> "Amazon indicates that it considers books to be like any other consumer good. They are not." Unfortunately, from everything I've seen of people's book buying habits, especially online, books are consumer goods.
- jacobolus 12y ago
  The point is, you can’t really substitute one book for a similar one in quite the same way you can substitute for a roll of toilet paper or a dinner plate or an umbrella or whatever.
  - cwyers 12y ago
    I mean, they're not quite commodities. But there's no shortage of close substitutes for most books. Books are subject to competition from other books, which causes price pressures, just like most goods.
    - protomyth 12y ago
      "But there's no shortage of close substitutes for most books" When the next book in a series arrives, there is no substitute. I would love to have seen someone trying to tell a Harry Potter reader that this other book is a substitute.
      - dublinben 12y ago
        >When the next book in a series arrives, there is no substitute. This is only because publishers enjoy an artificial monopoly on the production of specific works thanks to copyright. Without these limits, you would see a free market in competing editions of the same books, such as exists for books in the public domain. The Iliad: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=the%20iliad&sprefix=the+iliad%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Athe%20iliad http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3D... Adventures of Huckleberry Finn: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_asi_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ahuckleberry+finn&keywords=huckleberry+finn&ie=UTF8&qid=1401302390 http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_asi_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ahuckle...
jpiasetz 12y ago
Reuters published this recently http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/hachette-amazoncom-idUSL1N0OE1GZ20140528 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/hachette-amazoncom...
panarky 12y ago
It was pure evil genius for Amazon to offer a pool of funds to compensate authors, split 50-50 with Hachette. We’ve offered to Hachette to fund 50% of an author pool – to be allocated by Hachette – to mitigate the impact of this dispute on author royalties, if Hachette funds the other 50%. Hachette's response isn't nearly so clever. Once we have reached such an agreement, we will be happy to discuss with Amazon its ideas about compensating authors for the damage its demand for improved terms may have done them, and to pass along any payments it considers appropriate.
- nkurz 12y ago
  For easy reference, Amazon's full statement is here: http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle/ref=cm_cd_fp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1D7SY3BVSESG&cdThread=Tx1UO5T446WM5YY http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle/ref=cm_cd_fp_ef_tft_tp?_e... Amazon made a similar offer to Macmillan several years ago, and in fact authors did end up being paid an "outage adjustment" as a result: http://www.mhpbooks.com/amazon-macmillan-pay-authors-for-books-that-were-never-sold/ http://www.mhpbooks.com/amazon-macmillan-pay-authors-for-boo...
- danudey 12y ago
  It really feels like Amazon is the bad guy in this situation though. They've demanded terms from Hachette, then lashed out by slowing, then ceasing entirely, sales of Hachette's books. That doesn't seem like a mature way of dealing with things (at least, not without a little more communication rather than just cutting them off unannounced). Hachette's response makes sense. 'We didn't agree to the terms you tried to dictate to us, and now you're saying it's half our fault that these authors lost revenues as a result of your retaliation?'
  - mullingitover 12y ago
    > It really feels like Amazon is the bad guy in this situation though. They've demanded terms from Hachette, then lashed out by slowing, then ceasing entirely, sales of Hachette's books Aren't they doing a standard renegotiation of their contract? If they don't have a contract, Amazon is under no obligation to sell Hachette's products at all. Meanwhile, I wasn't in the room for their contract negotiation, but who's to say that Hachette isn't the one making unreasonable demands?
notlisted 12y ago
I found the discussion, cited by the Amazon response, pretty insightful (and it shows some shades of grey - no not 50! - with regards to the issue at hand) http://www.thecockeyedpessimist.blogspot.com/2014/05/whos-afraid-of-amazoncom.html http://www.thecockeyedpessimist.blogspot.com/2014/05/whos-af...
youngtaff 12y ago
This is a good read on the whole situation - http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/amazon-v-hachette-dont-believe-the-spin/ http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/amazon-v-hache... Suggests Hachette may not be as innocent as they would have us believe

35 points by IBM 12y ago

Enough people are getting upset about this that I expect both sides to make apologetic noises and shuffle towards a resolution at an increased pace. As far as finding out what really went down, or what the resolution ends up being I am doubtful at best.

bsimpson 12y ago

Blogspam with no link to the original. Also, that was a lot of words with basically no content: "We publish books. We think books are special. We have not yet reached an agreement with Amazon to keep selling books to them, but we will eventually. Also, we think this is all Amazon's fault and we're not going to consider their proposal to pay our authors in the meantime until after we resolve the contract dispute."

lnanek2 12y ago
The French do indeed write like that. You get used to it.
- gaius 12y ago
  See also Piketty. 1000 pages to say "les Anglo-Saxons, bof!"

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

dang 12y ago

It seems there's no original online source? At least the current url includes the actual statement. We changed it from http://lunch.publishersmarketplace.com/2014/05/hachette-answers-will-discuss-compensating-damage-amazons-demand-dispute-settled/ http://lunch.publishersmarketplace.com/2014/05/hachette-answ..., which weirdly inlines bits of it.

smoyer 12y ago
There actually seem to be quite a few "news outlets" that received a press release from Hachette, and yet their own press release page is horribly old: http://www.hachette.com/en/press/press-releases http://www.hachette.com/en/press/press-releases
lnanek2 12y ago
New link does seem an improvement over that.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

eck 12y ago

It is kind of amusing how similar this is to the network neutrality debate -- i.e. comcast's dispute with netflix affecting comcast/netflix customer content delivery -- yet with decidedly old-fashioned media.

valas 12y ago
Except that there are a lot of alternatives to Amazon with low switching cost to consumers.
- jtbigwoo 12y ago
  Unless you own a Kindle Paperwhite.
  - joshstrange 12y ago
    How do you figure that? Yes you might not have an ebook store built into your device but you are not locked into ONLY obtaining your ebooks from Amazon.
  - kemayo 12y ago
    You can keep on using your Kindle with other stores...
graylights 12y ago
Without an agreement amazon has no right to sell digital copies and certainly no obligation. Comcast made an obligation to deliver content when they agreed to provide internet service to their customers. The digital side of amazon story is not interesting in the slightest. The only real story is them leveraging their print marketplace to put pressure on a digital agreement. It's an abusive hardball tactic but one that large brick and mortar bookstores have done in past. This story shows that publishers are really obsolete. The production doesn't matter anymore with Print-On-Demand and Digital. The main services they offer are distribution and promotion. Many of the publishers have offloaded their distribution to amazon (and the like) and unless you're a big author the promotion is virtually non-existent. One could also argue they provide editing but now there are editors for hire to support indie writers.

moron4hire 12y ago

>>> "Amazon indicates that it considers books to be like any other consumer good. They are not." Unfortunately, from everything I've seen of people's book buying habits, especially online, books are consumer goods.

jacobolus 12y ago
The point is, you can’t really substitute one book for a similar one in quite the same way you can substitute for a roll of toilet paper or a dinner plate or an umbrella or whatever.
- cwyers 12y ago
  I mean, they're not quite commodities. But there's no shortage of close substitutes for most books. Books are subject to competition from other books, which causes price pressures, just like most goods.
  - protomyth 12y ago
    "But there's no shortage of close substitutes for most books" When the next book in a series arrives, there is no substitute. I would love to have seen someone trying to tell a Harry Potter reader that this other book is a substitute.
    - dublinben 12y ago
      >When the next book in a series arrives, there is no substitute. This is only because publishers enjoy an artificial monopoly on the production of specific works thanks to copyright. Without these limits, you would see a free market in competing editions of the same books, such as exists for books in the public domain. The Iliad: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=the%20iliad&sprefix=the+iliad%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Athe%20iliad http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3D... Adventures of Huckleberry Finn: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_asi_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ahuckleberry+finn&keywords=huckleberry+finn&ie=UTF8&qid=1401302390 http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_asi_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ahuckle...

jpiasetz 12y ago

Reuters published this recently http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/hachette-amazoncom-idUSL1N0OE1GZ20140528 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/hachette-amazoncom...

panarky 12y ago

It was pure evil genius for Amazon to offer a pool of funds to compensate authors, split 50-50 with Hachette. We’ve offered to Hachette to fund 50% of an author pool – to be allocated by Hachette – to mitigate the impact of this dispute on author royalties, if Hachette funds the other 50%. Hachette's response isn't nearly so clever. Once we have reached such an agreement, we will be happy to discuss with Amazon its ideas about compensating authors for the damage its demand for improved terms may have done them, and to pass along any payments it considers appropriate.

nkurz 12y ago
For easy reference, Amazon's full statement is here: http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle/ref=cm_cd_fp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1D7SY3BVSESG&cdThread=Tx1UO5T446WM5YY http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle/ref=cm_cd_fp_ef_tft_tp?_e... Amazon made a similar offer to Macmillan several years ago, and in fact authors did end up being paid an "outage adjustment" as a result: http://www.mhpbooks.com/amazon-macmillan-pay-authors-for-books-that-were-never-sold/ http://www.mhpbooks.com/amazon-macmillan-pay-authors-for-boo...
danudey 12y ago
It really feels like Amazon is the bad guy in this situation though. They've demanded terms from Hachette, then lashed out by slowing, then ceasing entirely, sales of Hachette's books. That doesn't seem like a mature way of dealing with things (at least, not without a little more communication rather than just cutting them off unannounced). Hachette's response makes sense. 'We didn't agree to the terms you tried to dictate to us, and now you're saying it's half our fault that these authors lost revenues as a result of your retaliation?'
- mullingitover 12y ago
  > It really feels like Amazon is the bad guy in this situation though. They've demanded terms from Hachette, then lashed out by slowing, then ceasing entirely, sales of Hachette's books Aren't they doing a standard renegotiation of their contract? If they don't have a contract, Amazon is under no obligation to sell Hachette's products at all. Meanwhile, I wasn't in the room for their contract negotiation, but who's to say that Hachette isn't the one making unreasonable demands?

notlisted 12y ago

I found the discussion, cited by the Amazon response, pretty insightful (and it shows some shades of grey - no not 50! - with regards to the issue at hand) http://www.thecockeyedpessimist.blogspot.com/2014/05/whos-afraid-of-amazoncom.html http://www.thecockeyedpessimist.blogspot.com/2014/05/whos-af...

youngtaff 12y ago

This is a good read on the whole situation - http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/amazon-v-hachette-dont-believe-the-spin/ http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/amazon-v-hache... Suggests Hachette may not be as innocent as they would have us believe