4 ms·

I don't buy the premise. Anyone knows what are those "repeated studies" he doesn't cite? I can't really even imagine measuring some sort of nation-wide innovati

I don't buy the premise. Anyone knows what are those "repeated studies" he doesn't cite? I can't really even imagine measuring some sort of nation-wide innovativeness. High employment in manufacturing doesn't seem like any proof of innovation to me. OK, so they make their own stuff and Americans outsource to China. Maybe that's a smarter way to go. But it has little to do with actually inventing and developing a product.

Spearchucker 12y ago
That's fair enough. An explanation of the widening income gap in the US (as opposed to non-widening income inequality in Germany) would be interesting.
radva42 12y ago
There are a lot of studies that measure not only the nation wide capacity to innovate, but all sorts of factors - political stability, business sophistications, etc. For example check the GCI: http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GlobalCompetitivenessReport_2013-14.pdf http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GlobalCompetitivenessReport... This report covers the entire globe. I'm not german, but I have lived around 8 years in Germany, I studied at a technical university there and worked at one of the Fraunhofer Institutes, which are mentioned in the article I have to say - they are definitely doing it right. I mean... just comparing how affordable universities are there. I am always amazed when I read stories about students in the US who graduate with $50.000 or more in debt. What I paid in Germany was around $300 per semester (for which I received also a travelling ticket for the entire transport system in the entire province... just the value of this ticket exceeds the $300) and that was about it. Later they introduced semester fees and I had to pay around 700$ per semester. And that was really high. I mean ... people were protesting and the province's government removed the fees. And it's really easy to find a part-time job in your field of studies in a high-tech cluster. In the case of my university the government spent like 2.5$ billion to extend the existing high-tech cluster so it can acommodate another 10.000 highly skilled researchers. This is all happeneing in a small city with 250k people. In areas like Stuttgart and Muenchen it's even crazier what they are doing. The only thing I am not fond about Germany right now is the high taxes. But AFAIK the government are planning in reducing the tax burden on companies to keep the economy competative. I don't know... is it easy to find a part time job in your field of studies in the US?
- rco8786 12y ago
  What does the cost of education have anything to do with here? > What I paid in Germany was around $300 per semester > In the case of my university the government spent like 2.5$ billion to extend the existing high-tech cluster > The only thing I am not fond about Germany right now is the high taxes Ever think those might be related? > I don't know... is it easy to find a part time job in your field of studies in the US? In the U.S., like the rest of the world, this is entirely dependent on what your field of study is.
  - radva42 12y ago
    > What does the cost of education have anything to do with here? The accessibility to higher education has everything to do with the capacity of the nation to innovate. And the cost is one of the main factors - it's one thing to have to pay like 500-600$ per year, another - thousands or tens of thousands. > Ever think those might be related? I never said that. But there are a lot of different possible scenarios here, where to put the higher tax burden - on the companies or on the employees. Check for example Denmark and Sweden as they follow different paths in that matter.
    - rco8786 12y ago
      > The accessibility to higher education has everything to do with the capacity of the nation to innovate The US has a higher % of people with higher education degrees than Germany. If anything, your argument needs to be that crippling student debt inhibits the capacity of a nation to innovate.

Spearchucker 12y ago

That's fair enough. An explanation of the widening income gap in the US (as opposed to non-widening income inequality in Germany) would be interesting.

radva42 12y ago

There are a lot of studies that measure not only the nation wide capacity to innovate, but all sorts of factors - political stability, business sophistications, etc. For example check the GCI: http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GlobalCompetitivenessReport_2013-14.pdf http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GlobalCompetitivenessReport... This report covers the entire globe. I'm not german, but I have lived around 8 years in Germany, I studied at a technical university there and worked at one of the Fraunhofer Institutes, which are mentioned in the article I have to say - they are definitely doing it right. I mean... just comparing how affordable universities are there. I am always amazed when I read stories about students in the US who graduate with $50.000 or more in debt. What I paid in Germany was around $300 per semester (for which I received also a travelling ticket for the entire transport system in the entire province... just the value of this ticket exceeds the $300) and that was about it. Later they introduced semester fees and I had to pay around 700$ per semester. And that was really high. I mean ... people were protesting and the province's government removed the fees. And it's really easy to find a part-time job in your field of studies in a high-tech cluster. In the case of my university the government spent like 2.5$ billion to extend the existing high-tech cluster so it can acommodate another 10.000 highly skilled researchers. This is all happeneing in a small city with 250k people. In areas like Stuttgart and Muenchen it's even crazier what they are doing. The only thing I am not fond about Germany right now is the high taxes. But AFAIK the government are planning in reducing the tax burden on companies to keep the economy competative. I don't know... is it easy to find a part time job in your field of studies in the US?

rco8786 12y ago
What does the cost of education have anything to do with here? > What I paid in Germany was around $300 per semester > In the case of my university the government spent like 2.5$ billion to extend the existing high-tech cluster > The only thing I am not fond about Germany right now is the high taxes Ever think those might be related? > I don't know... is it easy to find a part time job in your field of studies in the US? In the U.S., like the rest of the world, this is entirely dependent on what your field of study is.
- radva42 12y ago
  > What does the cost of education have anything to do with here? The accessibility to higher education has everything to do with the capacity of the nation to innovate. And the cost is one of the main factors - it's one thing to have to pay like 500-600$ per year, another - thousands or tens of thousands. > Ever think those might be related? I never said that. But there are a lot of different possible scenarios here, where to put the higher tax burden - on the companies or on the employees. Check for example Denmark and Sweden as they follow different paths in that matter.
  - rco8786 12y ago
    > The accessibility to higher education has everything to do with the capacity of the nation to innovate The US has a higher % of people with higher education degrees than Germany. If anything, your argument needs to be that crippling student debt inhibits the capacity of a nation to innovate.