4 ms·

That is true not only of Germany, but of many (most?) European countries. In Poland, if your company goes bankrupt, the social stigma will be with you for years

by jwr 12y ago

That is true not only of Germany, but of many (most?) European countries. In Poland, if your company goes bankrupt, the social stigma will be with you for years.

_delirium 12y ago
In Denmark it depends on the legal structure of your business. Personal debts are much harder to discharge in bankruptcy than in the U.S., and cause much longer-lasting trouble. But it's fairly easy to set up a limited-liability company, and in that case your personal finances are insulated from what happens to the business, like in the U.S. For example if an ApS you were owner of went bankrupt, it wouldn't impact your personal credit, and you wouldn't be personally responsible for the debt. As a result it's quite common for even low-turnover one-person freelance businesses to be incorporated as an ApS rather than performed as a sole proprietor (roughly like the use of LLCs in the United States).
- ThomPete 12y ago
  At the same time way more startups funding in Denmark are based on loans not investments and sometimes you have to personally vouch for that :)
- danielweber 12y ago
  I was surprised to learn that, even with the restrictions on bankruptcy declaration about 10 years ago, the US still makes it very very easy to declare bankruptcy, as compared with other first-world countries.
- bowlofpetunias 12y ago
  Same in the Netherlands. However, if the bankruptcy of the company is found to be the result of blatant mismanagement, the creditors can go after the owners personal possessions. There is no stigma attached to an entrepreneur who's company goes bankrupt, but the personal bankruptcy is a sign of failure.
- mseebach 12y ago
  One thing is the formalities of a bankruptcy, which like most business formalities in Denmark are pretty simple to deal with - another is the social stigma. It's anecdotal, but I'd say that such a stigma definitely exists in Denmark.
pawelkomarnicki 12y ago
That's only partially true about Poland. Your bankrupt company brings stigma only in case you performed some shady stuff, e.g. cheated on taxes or treated workers bad. From my experience I know that it's super hard to do business in Poland, because of specific mindset of my fellow Poles. Trying to make a startup and failing won't actually leave you with stigma.
- bayesianhorse 12y ago
  That's probably the reason why most Polish founders are in Berlin.
  - nazgob 12y ago
    Do you have a source to support this claim?
    - bayesianhorse 12y ago
      Up until recently I have heard no talk about Polish startups at all, but I always encounter programmers with a Polish background (to subsume a lot of circumstances surrounding nationality or ethnicity) in Berlin or the German scene in general. "Most" may not be correct, but it sure sounds nice :-)
dba7dba 12y ago
Same in Asian countries like Japan and Korea and China. I think pretty much US is the only place where FAILURE IS AN OPTION.

by jwr 12y ago

That is true not only of Germany, but of many (most?) European countries. In Poland, if your company goes bankrupt, the social stigma will be with you for years.

_delirium 12y ago

In Denmark it depends on the legal structure of your business. Personal debts are much harder to discharge in bankruptcy than in the U.S., and cause much longer-lasting trouble. But it's fairly easy to set up a limited-liability company, and in that case your personal finances are insulated from what happens to the business, like in the U.S. For example if an ApS you were owner of went bankrupt, it wouldn't impact your personal credit, and you wouldn't be personally responsible for the debt. As a result it's quite common for even low-turnover one-person freelance businesses to be incorporated as an ApS rather than performed as a sole proprietor (roughly like the use of LLCs in the United States).

ThomPete 12y ago
At the same time way more startups funding in Denmark are based on loans not investments and sometimes you have to personally vouch for that :)
danielweber 12y ago
I was surprised to learn that, even with the restrictions on bankruptcy declaration about 10 years ago, the US still makes it very very easy to declare bankruptcy, as compared with other first-world countries.
bowlofpetunias 12y ago
Same in the Netherlands. However, if the bankruptcy of the company is found to be the result of blatant mismanagement, the creditors can go after the owners personal possessions. There is no stigma attached to an entrepreneur who's company goes bankrupt, but the personal bankruptcy is a sign of failure.
mseebach 12y ago
One thing is the formalities of a bankruptcy, which like most business formalities in Denmark are pretty simple to deal with - another is the social stigma. It's anecdotal, but I'd say that such a stigma definitely exists in Denmark.

pawelkomarnicki 12y ago

That's only partially true about Poland. Your bankrupt company brings stigma only in case you performed some shady stuff, e.g. cheated on taxes or treated workers bad. From my experience I know that it's super hard to do business in Poland, because of specific mindset of my fellow Poles. Trying to make a startup and failing won't actually leave you with stigma.

bayesianhorse 12y ago
That's probably the reason why most Polish founders are in Berlin.
- nazgob 12y ago
  Do you have a source to support this claim?
  - bayesianhorse 12y ago
    Up until recently I have heard no talk about Polish startups at all, but I always encounter programmers with a Polish background (to subsume a lot of circumstances surrounding nationality or ethnicity) in Berlin or the German scene in general. "Most" may not be correct, but it sure sounds nice :-)

dba7dba 12y ago

Same in Asian countries like Japan and Korea and China. I think pretty much US is the only place where FAILURE IS AN OPTION.