4 ms·

How about something simple like telling the car, "back up 10 feet" or "move to the spot across the street". This is dead simple short range routes...

by mentat 12y ago

threeseed 12y ago
How does one "tell" the car what to do without controls ? I hope you're not suggesting voice recognition because anything less than 100% accuracy will guarantee accidents and possibly deaths.
- amock 12y ago
  The car needs to know what's safe regardless of whether or not the instructions are via voice or another method, so inaccurate voice control does not guarantee accidents.
  - ithkuil 12y ago
    yep, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  A smartphone app would probably suffice, given that I can control a drone aircraft with one already.
- qbrass 12y ago
  The same way you tell it drive anywhere else without controls.
- GotAnyMegadeth 12y ago
  I'm pretty sure current cars with controls guarantee accidents and deaths
  - krapp 12y ago
    How sure are you that cars without controls guarantee neither?
    - mentat 12y ago
      Because it's provably possible to make a car that drives better than the average human. It's not about guarantees, it's about improvement.
      - krapp 12y ago
        It's not provably possible yet - the average human is quite capable of not killing themselves or others in any number of hazardous and random driving conditions which autonomous cars can't even manage. I should probably mention since I typically bleed karma in these threads, that i'm not at all against autonomous vehicles in principle. I can see a lot of ways in which they could make driving safer, and transportation costs cheaper, and do a lot of good. What I am against is the premise that people are so dangerous and terrible at something they've been, mostly, able to do safely for about a century that their freedoms need to be taken away. Autonomous cars are fine - trying to take for granted that personal freedom is dangerous and stupid and that people need to be controlled like herd animals is not necessarily a good thing. Where is this absolute certainty and conviction that I see in these threads coming from? Certainly not from having observed several million autonomous vehicles on the roads.
        learc83 12y ago
        >What I am against is the premise that people are so dangerous and terrible at something they've been, mostly, able to do safely for about a century that their freedoms need to be taken away. People are dangerous and terrible drivers. There are 30k vehicle accident deaths each year in the US (1.3 million world wide), and it used to be much higher (especially per mile driven). Number of deaths per mile driven has been going down drastically in large part because technology has limited a driver's direct control of the vehicle. > Autonomous cars are fine - trying to take for granted that personal freedom is dangerous and stupid and that people need to be controlled like herd animals is not necessarily a good thing. ABS/traction control/drive-by-wire takes direct control away from the driver and gives it to a computer. Self driving cars are just the next layer of abstraction above this. You're still in control of the car, it's just that the interface is a touchscreen with a map instead of a steering wheel.
- mentat 12y ago
  Because it would have to immediately take the action without any sort of verification check? I wouldn't want to ride in that car either, but that's not how anyone remotely intelligent would design it. We're not talking about unscoped directions either which is a much less harder problem then general recognition.
Theodores 12y ago
There also needs to be a 'pause for others' button so that a motorist in a side street can be let in to a congested road or for a motorist on the opposite side of the road wanting to turn can make their move. This is the usual scenario where a motorist flashes their lights to let someone through. As a cyclist/pedestrian I am always amazed by this altruistic side of motorists and it would be a shame if 'the computer said no'. A little 'be nice' button could be a cool feature.
- ithkuil 12y ago
  Why does it have to be a button? Can't the computer just be programmed to be nice by default? Or then we'd need a "oh c'mon" button?
- JackFr 12y ago
  Actually, if as you approach a traffic signal, you cede control of the car to the signal, you can avoid red lights altogether as the smart signal shuffles the cars through without any of them hitting each other, handing off control back to the car after it passes through the intersection. A similar technique could be used on on-ramps.
  - alextgordon 12y ago
    I don't think the parent was talking about traffic signals, just a side road with a give way/yield. If both roads are congested then "always let everybody in" and "never let anybody in" will both result in deadlock. Another example is the pedestrian crossing outside my house. There's no traffic lights. Usually cars will drive right past and you (as a pedestrian) have to wait for a gap in the traffic, but sometimes they'll be nice and stop (especially for children).

How about something simple like telling the car, "back up 10 feet" or "move to the spot across the street". This is dead simple short range routes...

by mentat 12y ago

How about something simple like telling the car, "back up 10 feet" or "move to the spot across the street". This is dead simple short range routes...

threeseed 12y ago

How does one "tell" the car what to do without controls ? I hope you're not suggesting voice recognition because anything less than 100% accuracy will guarantee accidents and possibly deaths.

amock 12y ago
The car needs to know what's safe regardless of whether or not the instructions are via voice or another method, so inaccurate voice control does not guarantee accidents.
- ithkuil 12y ago
  yep, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics
ceejayoz 12y ago
A smartphone app would probably suffice, given that I can control a drone aircraft with one already.
qbrass 12y ago
The same way you tell it drive anywhere else without controls.
GotAnyMegadeth 12y ago
I'm pretty sure current cars with controls guarantee accidents and deaths
- krapp 12y ago
  How sure are you that cars without controls guarantee neither?
  - mentat 12y ago
    Because it's provably possible to make a car that drives better than the average human. It's not about guarantees, it's about improvement.
    - krapp 12y ago
      It's not provably possible yet - the average human is quite capable of not killing themselves or others in any number of hazardous and random driving conditions which autonomous cars can't even manage. I should probably mention since I typically bleed karma in these threads, that i'm not at all against autonomous vehicles in principle. I can see a lot of ways in which they could make driving safer, and transportation costs cheaper, and do a lot of good. What I am against is the premise that people are so dangerous and terrible at something they've been, mostly, able to do safely for about a century that their freedoms need to be taken away. Autonomous cars are fine - trying to take for granted that personal freedom is dangerous and stupid and that people need to be controlled like herd animals is not necessarily a good thing. Where is this absolute certainty and conviction that I see in these threads coming from? Certainly not from having observed several million autonomous vehicles on the roads.
      - learc83 12y ago
        >What I am against is the premise that people are so dangerous and terrible at something they've been, mostly, able to do safely for about a century that their freedoms need to be taken away. People are dangerous and terrible drivers. There are 30k vehicle accident deaths each year in the US (1.3 million world wide), and it used to be much higher (especially per mile driven). Number of deaths per mile driven has been going down drastically in large part because technology has limited a driver's direct control of the vehicle. > Autonomous cars are fine - trying to take for granted that personal freedom is dangerous and stupid and that people need to be controlled like herd animals is not necessarily a good thing. ABS/traction control/drive-by-wire takes direct control away from the driver and gives it to a computer. Self driving cars are just the next layer of abstraction above this. You're still in control of the car, it's just that the interface is a touchscreen with a map instead of a steering wheel.
mentat 12y ago
Because it would have to immediately take the action without any sort of verification check? I wouldn't want to ride in that car either, but that's not how anyone remotely intelligent would design it. We're not talking about unscoped directions either which is a much less harder problem then general recognition.

Theodores 12y ago

There also needs to be a 'pause for others' button so that a motorist in a side street can be let in to a congested road or for a motorist on the opposite side of the road wanting to turn can make their move. This is the usual scenario where a motorist flashes their lights to let someone through. As a cyclist/pedestrian I am always amazed by this altruistic side of motorists and it would be a shame if 'the computer said no'. A little 'be nice' button could be a cool feature.

ithkuil 12y ago
Why does it have to be a button? Can't the computer just be programmed to be nice by default? Or then we'd need a "oh c'mon" button?
JackFr 12y ago
Actually, if as you approach a traffic signal, you cede control of the car to the signal, you can avoid red lights altogether as the smart signal shuffles the cars through without any of them hitting each other, handing off control back to the car after it passes through the intersection. A similar technique could be used on on-ramps.
- alextgordon 12y ago
  I don't think the parent was talking about traffic signals, just a side road with a give way/yield. If both roads are congested then "always let everybody in" and "never let anybody in" will both result in deadlock. Another example is the pedestrian crossing outside my house. There's no traffic lights. Usually cars will drive right past and you (as a pedestrian) have to wait for a gap in the traffic, but sometimes they'll be nice and stop (especially for children).