6 ms·

By "atone" do you mean "save your own skin"?

by vernie 12y ago

mpyne 12y ago
You mean like Snowden is "saving his own skin" by fleeing to that notable bastion of human rights that is Putin's Russia? I mean, that's the defense of his actions consistently offered up right here on HN, after all. "Well what did you expect him to do, come back for his Constitutional trial by a jury of his peers??"
- vernie 12y ago
  Which of his pals did he sell out?
  - mpyne 12y ago
    There's a few hundred thousand still in uniform. After all, it's not like he only leaked things he subjectively felt were instances of "domestic surveillance", in which case we might be able to have a different conversation about his actions. Failing that, there's the people in a certain country whom Greenwald himself claimed would be put directly at risk if that country name were to be revealed. But WikiLeaks leaked it anyways.... which is directly attributable to Snowden. But that's the beautiful things about things like what he does. It's like coal polluting the air... we know it kills people in the abstract, but you can't point to a slouched-over body directly attributable to any given lump of coal.
    - vilhelm_s 12y ago
      Wait, how is Wikileaks related to Snowden?
      - mpyne 12y ago
        Snowden is the source of the data WikiLeaks leaked. It's not as if he only gave it to Greenwald.
        vilhelm_s 12y ago
        Source? All I have ever read states that he gave it a group of journalists, but I have never heard it claimed that he gave anything to Wikileaks. If he did, why have they not released any of it?
- Eupolemos 12y ago
  Load of bull. Sabu was caught and played ball, Snowden acted on moral grounds. Russia is simply the only nation willing to anger the US and deter "payback", hence his only choice.
- rhizome 12y ago
  Snowden didn't flee to Russia.
- serf 12y ago
  1) he got stuck in Russia, he didn't flee to it. When you say things like that you appear pretty uninformed about the situation to anyone that cares. 2) In this scenario, the American People would be the FBI, and the criminal conspirators would be the NSA and Snowden is Sabu. I can think of very few more noble activities than exposing the fraud of a working government to the very people who have a chance at changing it via the power of a democratic society. It's ridiculous to even compare the scenarios, as the motives between the two are so different, and I hope anyone can see that. Look at the audiences at least. Sabu has gained personally from every single decision he has made; whether it was for his own agenda or for the FBI's after he was caught. What has Snowden achieved for himself?

By "atone" do you mean "save your own skin"?

by vernie 12y ago

By "atone" do you mean "save your own skin"?

mpyne 12y ago

You mean like Snowden is "saving his own skin" by fleeing to that notable bastion of human rights that is Putin's Russia? I mean, that's the defense of his actions consistently offered up right here on HN, after all. "Well what did you expect him to do, come back for his Constitutional trial by a jury of his peers??"

vernie 12y ago
Which of his pals did he sell out?
- mpyne 12y ago
  There's a few hundred thousand still in uniform. After all, it's not like he only leaked things he subjectively felt were instances of "domestic surveillance", in which case we might be able to have a different conversation about his actions. Failing that, there's the people in a certain country whom Greenwald himself claimed would be put directly at risk if that country name were to be revealed. But WikiLeaks leaked it anyways.... which is directly attributable to Snowden. But that's the beautiful things about things like what he does. It's like coal polluting the air... we know it kills people in the abstract, but you can't point to a slouched-over body directly attributable to any given lump of coal.
  - vilhelm_s 12y ago
    Wait, how is Wikileaks related to Snowden?
    - mpyne 12y ago
      Snowden is the source of the data WikiLeaks leaked. It's not as if he only gave it to Greenwald.
      - vilhelm_s 12y ago
        Source? All I have ever read states that he gave it a group of journalists, but I have never heard it claimed that he gave anything to Wikileaks. If he did, why have they not released any of it?
Eupolemos 12y ago
Load of bull. Sabu was caught and played ball, Snowden acted on moral grounds. Russia is simply the only nation willing to anger the US and deter "payback", hence his only choice.
rhizome 12y ago
Snowden didn't flee to Russia.
serf 12y ago
1) he got stuck in Russia, he didn't flee to it. When you say things like that you appear pretty uninformed about the situation to anyone that cares. 2) In this scenario, the American People would be the FBI, and the criminal conspirators would be the NSA and Snowden is Sabu. I can think of very few more noble activities than exposing the fraud of a working government to the very people who have a chance at changing it via the power of a democratic society. It's ridiculous to even compare the scenarios, as the motives between the two are so different, and I hope anyone can see that. Look at the audiences at least. Sabu has gained personally from every single decision he has made; whether it was for his own agenda or for the FBI's after he was caught. What has Snowden achieved for himself?