6 ms·

A lot of the misgivings most developers seem to have in this thread have to do with the physical hardware specs. Which I hate to use this term but this is a sid

A lot of the misgivings most developers seem to have in this thread have to do with the physical hardware specs. Which I hate to use this term but this is a side effect of "1st world privilege". FireFoxOS/Phones were designed for emerging markets [1]. In the West dropping $500+ USD on a smartphone is not uncommon (Or to sell retail phones for this price). While in 'emerging markets' like China/India/Brazil/etc. 500 dollars can be 4-6 months worth of rent [2]. [1] FireFoxOS presentation at mobile conference circa 2013 [2] numbeo.com

msh 12y ago
but for 170 usd you can get android and windows phones with both better spec's and a more complete OS.
- dblohm7 12y ago
  What good is a reference phone for development of Firefox OS itself and app development on that OS if you're running Android or Windows Phone? I think you've missed the point of the device!
  - piokuc 12y ago
    I think the idea was to make it possible to install Firefox OS on a popular and affordable Android handset. Both Firefox OS and apps for Fx OS could be developed on it.
    - dblohm7 12y ago
      "...and a more complete OS." That doesn't suggest to me that this person is intending to develop Fx OS on it.
- valarauca1 12y ago
  This phone isn't invented to be your daily driver. Its built as a development platform. You wouldn't buy a AMD Opteron A1100 Development board (AMD's ARM based CPU) and bemoan the fact that for ~$200 you can buy a vastly computational superior computer. Your buying it as a development system.
  - Yunk 12y ago
    But you can also synchronize on a reference system from your competitor's systems and then you can do easy comparisons. (For example, Solaris x86 clearly favored 1-2 specific windows/mac laptops --which could be ordered on a fast track internally-- and supported the bundled devices on those laptops if the device's type was supported at all. Swapping the external reference every few years was annoying but cheap and limited the arguments to selecting among actual configurations rather than future possibilities.) I would hope there is another reason is like getting a reliable ABI and clear licensing for the DSP side software? Otherwise, offering a better OS on a few models of android phones will be more useful now, and then again as used Android phones enter the emerging markets.
e15ctr0n 12y ago
What prevents consumers in emerging markets from buying an Android phone for an equivalent amount ($170)?
- valarauca1 12y ago
  Notice in its feature it has reduced system RAM controllable by software so you can mock up reduced performance phones... like those that will be sold in emerging markets.
- asadotzler 12y ago
  There are several solid consumer-facing phones in this price range. This is not a consumer-facing phone. It contains a very specific hardware profile that isn't matched by those consumer-facing phones. This is a "reference phone" containing "reference hardware". In addition, it's the phone that Mozilla is standardizing Firefox OS development on, so it will have lots of other Mozillians using it which is important to many in the Firefox OS development ecosystem.
  - gcb0 12y ago
    > tell devs to buy it so they can support firefox phones. > phone is not what users will have. how is this better than using the emulator then? also, how is this any different than the last 4 times this was done?
    - Yoric 12y ago
      > how is this better than using the emulator then? Well, the emulator is not quite as comfortable for testing, say, calls, or SMS, or gyroscope, etc. > also, how is this any different than the last 4 times this was done? I am not aware of 4 times. However, it is true that Preview/Early Access Developer Phones have been released in the past. This one is not a Preview. IIUC, this one is considered stable.
    - mythmon_ 12y ago
      This phone is designed to be a superset of the hardware of other FirefoxOS phones. In theory, any hardware feature on another phone will also be found on this phone. Additionally, this phone has features like the ability to artificially limit the amount of ram it has, to test other device profiles.
middleclick 12y ago
As someone who was born in one of those emerging markets, I have my doubts that people who fall in the economic category you mentioned would spend $170 on a phone. There are way cheaper options available, for as less as $40 which play music and FM -- perhaps the two requirements that people care about it. I don't think having apps is on the top of the list, but then, this is my (anecdotal) opinion.
- asadotzler 12y ago
  There's a lot of range there. Have you seen our $25 Firefox OS phone initiative? We're going to cover several segments of these markets.
  - middleclick 12y ago
    Oh that's great. I never knew about this. This is the price I had in mind.
    - nnethercote 12y ago
      And that's why you can configure it to use less RAM, to emulate lower-end hardware. (The emulation is imperfect, but it's certainly better than nothing.)
  - chris_mahan 12y ago
    I live in the first world, and I want one of those too.
- valarauca1 12y ago
  Actually one of the features Mozilla has been stressing is a FM radio player. Their target prices was 25-50USD for eastern european/chinese models.
deleted 12y ago
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derekp7 12y ago
What really "grinds my gears" is that when you want to use a particular mobile OS, you have to go out and buy a specific piece of hardware. I want to be able to choose from a range of phones, and then select the OS for them. Even if that means the OS is installed on a micro SD card, or even a variant of the SIM card.
- JVIDEL 12y ago
  You can install FOS on a lot of devices, been available for a while now, same as Android itself and Ubuntu Phone or Sailfish. What you are saying only applies to iOS really.
  - gareim 12y ago
    Forgetting WP? And even Android? Can you go out, buy a Lumia, and install a working copy of Android? You can install Android on devices that are already running some version of Android. And some fringe cases like the HTC HD2 and HP Touchpad (I had both, the Touchpad didn't work too great). But that's far from what the OP was asking for.
    - hrrsn 12y ago
      That's a lot of work for a feature that probably wouldn't excite most consumers.
- SixSigma 12y ago
  An OS operates hardware, hardware needs drivers, drivers need testing, this is expensive and time consuming and not very possible for all hardware, even if the parts claim pin compatibility. Hardware manufacturers compete with each other for market. If every handset is the same compatible hardware, that just leaves build quality and price as the variables and they are orthogonal. That means hardware people also like to add features like GPS, compass, different cameras, expansion ports, heartrate monitor, fingerprint recognition, dual-sim, etc. etc. and we're back to drivers and testing.
  - 12y ago
deleted 12y ago
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msh 12y ago

but for 170 usd you can get android and windows phones with both better spec's and a more complete OS.

dblohm7 12y ago
What good is a reference phone for development of Firefox OS itself and app development on that OS if you're running Android or Windows Phone? I think you've missed the point of the device!
- piokuc 12y ago
  I think the idea was to make it possible to install Firefox OS on a popular and affordable Android handset. Both Firefox OS and apps for Fx OS could be developed on it.
  - dblohm7 12y ago
    "...and a more complete OS." That doesn't suggest to me that this person is intending to develop Fx OS on it.
valarauca1 12y ago
This phone isn't invented to be your daily driver. Its built as a development platform. You wouldn't buy a AMD Opteron A1100 Development board (AMD's ARM based CPU) and bemoan the fact that for ~$200 you can buy a vastly computational superior computer. Your buying it as a development system.
- Yunk 12y ago
  But you can also synchronize on a reference system from your competitor's systems and then you can do easy comparisons. (For example, Solaris x86 clearly favored 1-2 specific windows/mac laptops --which could be ordered on a fast track internally-- and supported the bundled devices on those laptops if the device's type was supported at all. Swapping the external reference every few years was annoying but cheap and limited the arguments to selecting among actual configurations rather than future possibilities.) I would hope there is another reason is like getting a reliable ABI and clear licensing for the DSP side software? Otherwise, offering a better OS on a few models of android phones will be more useful now, and then again as used Android phones enter the emerging markets.

e15ctr0n 12y ago

What prevents consumers in emerging markets from buying an Android phone for an equivalent amount ($170)?

valarauca1 12y ago
Notice in its feature it has reduced system RAM controllable by software so you can mock up reduced performance phones... like those that will be sold in emerging markets.
asadotzler 12y ago
There are several solid consumer-facing phones in this price range. This is not a consumer-facing phone. It contains a very specific hardware profile that isn't matched by those consumer-facing phones. This is a "reference phone" containing "reference hardware". In addition, it's the phone that Mozilla is standardizing Firefox OS development on, so it will have lots of other Mozillians using it which is important to many in the Firefox OS development ecosystem.
- gcb0 12y ago
  > tell devs to buy it so they can support firefox phones. > phone is not what users will have. how is this better than using the emulator then? also, how is this any different than the last 4 times this was done?
  - Yoric 12y ago
    > how is this better than using the emulator then? Well, the emulator is not quite as comfortable for testing, say, calls, or SMS, or gyroscope, etc. > also, how is this any different than the last 4 times this was done? I am not aware of 4 times. However, it is true that Preview/Early Access Developer Phones have been released in the past. This one is not a Preview. IIUC, this one is considered stable.
  - mythmon_ 12y ago
    This phone is designed to be a superset of the hardware of other FirefoxOS phones. In theory, any hardware feature on another phone will also be found on this phone. Additionally, this phone has features like the ability to artificially limit the amount of ram it has, to test other device profiles.

middleclick 12y ago

As someone who was born in one of those emerging markets, I have my doubts that people who fall in the economic category you mentioned would spend $170 on a phone. There are way cheaper options available, for as less as $40 which play music and FM -- perhaps the two requirements that people care about it. I don't think having apps is on the top of the list, but then, this is my (anecdotal) opinion.

asadotzler 12y ago
There's a lot of range there. Have you seen our $25 Firefox OS phone initiative? We're going to cover several segments of these markets.
- middleclick 12y ago
  Oh that's great. I never knew about this. This is the price I had in mind.
  - nnethercote 12y ago
    And that's why you can configure it to use less RAM, to emulate lower-end hardware. (The emulation is imperfect, but it's certainly better than nothing.)
- chris_mahan 12y ago
  I live in the first world, and I want one of those too.
valarauca1 12y ago
Actually one of the features Mozilla has been stressing is a FM radio player. Their target prices was 25-50USD for eastern european/chinese models.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

derekp7 12y ago

What really "grinds my gears" is that when you want to use a particular mobile OS, you have to go out and buy a specific piece of hardware. I want to be able to choose from a range of phones, and then select the OS for them. Even if that means the OS is installed on a micro SD card, or even a variant of the SIM card.

JVIDEL 12y ago
You can install FOS on a lot of devices, been available for a while now, same as Android itself and Ubuntu Phone or Sailfish. What you are saying only applies to iOS really.
- gareim 12y ago
  Forgetting WP? And even Android? Can you go out, buy a Lumia, and install a working copy of Android? You can install Android on devices that are already running some version of Android. And some fringe cases like the HTC HD2 and HP Touchpad (I had both, the Touchpad didn't work too great). But that's far from what the OP was asking for.
  - hrrsn 12y ago
    That's a lot of work for a feature that probably wouldn't excite most consumers.
SixSigma 12y ago
An OS operates hardware, hardware needs drivers, drivers need testing, this is expensive and time consuming and not very possible for all hardware, even if the parts claim pin compatibility. Hardware manufacturers compete with each other for market. If every handset is the same compatible hardware, that just leaves build quality and price as the variables and they are orthogonal. That means hardware people also like to add features like GPS, compass, different cameras, expansion ports, heartrate monitor, fingerprint recognition, dual-sim, etc. etc. and we're back to drivers and testing.
- 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

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