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The next RHEL is going python 3 though I think? Fedora has done nicely over the last couple of years packaging everything for python 3 as well. A dozen or so

by illumen 12y ago

The next RHEL is going python 3 though I think? Fedora has done nicely over the last couple of years packaging everything for python 3 as well. A dozen or so packages left to do, but they are going well. Ubuntu, Debian, and Gnome have also been pushing to get to a python 3 use by the base system in the last releases... and are almost there as well. This of course has meant a lot more packages have been ported upstream in the last few months. If the next Mac OS X release has python 3... then we things will change really quickly.

octopus 12y ago
No major Linux distribution uses Python 3 as the default Python today. All of them use Python 2. Yes, they have a half backed Python 3 alternative for "almost" all packages ... We can discuss more in 4 years when the next Ubuntu LTS will be released. Apple has no interest to migrate their Python configuration scripts to Python 3. I use Python 3 for my side projects, so I compile it myself or install it with Brew on OS X, but I suspect most users will use what comes with the OS (which is 2.7.x). One can hope ... In conclusion, on the Linux land we'll see in about 4 years, for OS X ... maybe this summer or sometime in the future. In any case, I see no massive Python 3 adoption in the near future.
- sergiosgc 12y ago
  I use Debian, and python 3 is one "apt-get install python3" away. Ubuntu probably includes the same packages in its repos. SuSE and Fedora are in the same boat (python3 in repos). Arch and Gentoo obviously package python 3. Redhat really is the black sheep here. There is no reason for the assertion that no major distro has more than a half baked python 3 alternative. It is not really important if it is the default python or not. Python 3 is no less available than ruby or nodejs or any of the other contenders presented in this thread.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Ubuntu probably includes the same packages in its repos. Ubuntu not only includes python3 in the base repos, I'm pretty sure its on the CD and used by some core packages now -- the conversion project that is ongoing but not yet complete is to completely eliminate python2 from the base install, which is not yet complete.
    - octopus 12y ago
      Do you really think Ubuntu will destabilize their current LTS release by switching to Python3 and removing Python2 ? I don't know what Canonical will do for the next LTS release, but for the near future (read like 4 years) Python3 will not be a first class citizen in the Ubuntu world.
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        > Do you really think Ubuntu will destabilize their current LTS release by switching to Python3 and removing Python2 ? I think you are confusing several different things: 1) "switching to Python 3" -- if by this you mean making /usr/bin/python point to python 3, that will never happen on Ubuntu (and probably most other distros that aren't Arch.) They've stated that even when everything that relies on python is moved to python 3, they will follow PEP-349 and keep python 3 at /usr/bin/python3. /usr/bin/python will only exist when python2 is installed and will always be python 2. 2) "removing Python 2" -- obviously, they won't retroactively do this to an existing LTS release. It'll probably be first done in a regular release between now and the next LTS release (it was targetted for this LTS release, but not everything was ported, so currently both python 2 and python 3 are used.) 3) Making Python 3 a "first class citizen in the Ubuntu world" -- it already is.
  - octopus 12y ago
    Actually it is important which one is the default, most users will use what comes with the base install and this will slow the Python3 adoption at least for a few years.
- dangayle 12y ago
  This is not correct. Arch Linux now uses Python 3 by default. (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/python https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/python)
  - octopus 12y ago
    I was talking about major Linux distributions like in the first 3 or 4 (I don't want to dismiss Arch, but this more of an expert distribution than a major/popular one). Obviously, there are a lot of Linux distributions today, however most people will use some flavour of Debian, Ubuntu or RedHat.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    I think a number of distros include python3 by default, but -- per python's own standards (adopted as a result of disruption caused by Arch having python3 as /usr/bin/python -- it isn't linked to /usr/bin/python but to /usr/bin/python3; /usr/bin/python is (except on Arch) always python2. That's not a matter of which is "default python" (e.g., even if, as Ubuntu plans to, python3 is the only python installed (not merely "the default python"), it will only be /usr/bin/python3, not /usr/bin/python.) This is about consistency given that major versions aren't intended to be backward compatible so scripts either fail or find a compatible python when using a shebang, not about what is "default".
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

by illumen 12y ago

octopus 12y ago

No major Linux distribution uses Python 3 as the default Python today. All of them use Python 2. Yes, they have a half backed Python 3 alternative for "almost" all packages ... We can discuss more in 4 years when the next Ubuntu LTS will be released. Apple has no interest to migrate their Python configuration scripts to Python 3. I use Python 3 for my side projects, so I compile it myself or install it with Brew on OS X, but I suspect most users will use what comes with the OS (which is 2.7.x). One can hope ... In conclusion, on the Linux land we'll see in about 4 years, for OS X ... maybe this summer or sometime in the future. In any case, I see no massive Python 3 adoption in the near future.

sergiosgc 12y ago
I use Debian, and python 3 is one "apt-get install python3" away. Ubuntu probably includes the same packages in its repos. SuSE and Fedora are in the same boat (python3 in repos). Arch and Gentoo obviously package python 3. Redhat really is the black sheep here. There is no reason for the assertion that no major distro has more than a half baked python 3 alternative. It is not really important if it is the default python or not. Python 3 is no less available than ruby or nodejs or any of the other contenders presented in this thread.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Ubuntu probably includes the same packages in its repos. Ubuntu not only includes python3 in the base repos, I'm pretty sure its on the CD and used by some core packages now -- the conversion project that is ongoing but not yet complete is to completely eliminate python2 from the base install, which is not yet complete.
  - octopus 12y ago
    Do you really think Ubuntu will destabilize their current LTS release by switching to Python3 and removing Python2 ? I don't know what Canonical will do for the next LTS release, but for the near future (read like 4 years) Python3 will not be a first class citizen in the Ubuntu world.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > Do you really think Ubuntu will destabilize their current LTS release by switching to Python3 and removing Python2 ? I think you are confusing several different things: 1) "switching to Python 3" -- if by this you mean making /usr/bin/python point to python 3, that will never happen on Ubuntu (and probably most other distros that aren't Arch.) They've stated that even when everything that relies on python is moved to python 3, they will follow PEP-349 and keep python 3 at /usr/bin/python3. /usr/bin/python will only exist when python2 is installed and will always be python 2. 2) "removing Python 2" -- obviously, they won't retroactively do this to an existing LTS release. It'll probably be first done in a regular release between now and the next LTS release (it was targetted for this LTS release, but not everything was ported, so currently both python 2 and python 3 are used.) 3) Making Python 3 a "first class citizen in the Ubuntu world" -- it already is.
- octopus 12y ago
  Actually it is important which one is the default, most users will use what comes with the base install and this will slow the Python3 adoption at least for a few years.
dangayle 12y ago
This is not correct. Arch Linux now uses Python 3 by default. (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/python https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/python)
- octopus 12y ago
  I was talking about major Linux distributions like in the first 3 or 4 (I don't want to dismiss Arch, but this more of an expert distribution than a major/popular one). Obviously, there are a lot of Linux distributions today, however most people will use some flavour of Debian, Ubuntu or RedHat.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  I think a number of distros include python3 by default, but -- per python's own standards (adopted as a result of disruption caused by Arch having python3 as /usr/bin/python -- it isn't linked to /usr/bin/python but to /usr/bin/python3; /usr/bin/python is (except on Arch) always python2. That's not a matter of which is "default python" (e.g., even if, as Ubuntu plans to, python3 is the only python installed (not merely "the default python"), it will only be /usr/bin/python3, not /usr/bin/python.) This is about consistency given that major versions aren't intended to be backward compatible so scripts either fail or find a compatible python when using a shebang, not about what is "default".
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]