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Why would anyone join a mob when you can have anything a mob could ever give you? Even a sadist could have far more fun for far longer on a holodeck than hurtin

by staunch 12y ago

Why would anyone join a mob when you can have anything a mob could ever give you? Even a sadist could have far more fun for far longer on a holodeck than hurting real people. Star Trek presents a utopian future where resources are limitless and every child grows up in a friendly and happy world with an education we can't even imagine. They have healthcare that actually works. They can fix essentially any physical or mental ailment. A bit of a sadist? Oh, let me fix that right here, your levels were extremely high. You have to imagine what happens to society when we can fix almost all the problems that divide us.

krapp 12y ago
The one thing it can't give you is freedom from the system. No matter how many holographic people you 'play' with, you know perfectly well it's just force fields and really good AI. Alcohol is forbidden, but everyone seems to have a bottle of something green and potent stashed away somewhere. DS9 got a bit into genetic engineering as a result of the post-apocalyptic setting of the Trek universe with Bashir, who was secretly sent offworld by his parents (IIRC I forget the reason) to be genetically modified by aliens because (thanks to the Eugenics wars) that sort of thing was forbidden on Earth. So he was essentially an Augment hiding out. The Maquis were upset with Federation politics and essentially seceded. For all it's utopian pretense, it's clear at least as it's portrayed, that the Federation is a society with limits, and laws, and wherever you have limits and laws you have crime and a desire to game the system. Even a soft prison can feel like a prison. I can easily imagine the Federation feeling like that.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- staunch 12y ago
  We will be able to do direct brain input in the future, much better than running around in a holodeck, so we will be able to fool the brain entirely. Alcohol is not forbidden, just not permitted while on duty and not served on board ship. The problem with Bashir was that he was genetically enhanced to be superior. He wasn't just treated for a medical issue. The Maquis were renegade Federation not anti-Federation though, that seems hard to avoid, you can't please everyone. The Federation has no policy against succession and no walls to act as a prison. Anyone is free to come and go. You have access to all the resources needed to live. And it's not that no one ever commits a crime, just that it's exceptionally rare, not part of regular life.
  - krapp 12y ago
    It seems you remember the details a bit better than I do. Still, the world you're describing sounds like a nightmare to me.
- eli_gottlieb 12y ago
  All functioning societies have to have laws. That's what it is to live as an equal among equals. Unlimited liberty is unlimited power, and therefore requires either unlimited moral restraint or simply cannot exist in society. You could have a philosophical utopia in which all the laws are derived from Kant's Categorical Imperative, but those would still be laws, limiting the actions you're allowed to take. For the Federation's defense, if you wanted that kind of total liberty, you could move to some godforsaken colony world and live totally alone.

by staunch 12y ago

krapp 12y ago

The one thing it can't give you is freedom from the system. No matter how many holographic people you 'play' with, you know perfectly well it's just force fields and really good AI. Alcohol is forbidden, but everyone seems to have a bottle of something green and potent stashed away somewhere. DS9 got a bit into genetic engineering as a result of the post-apocalyptic setting of the Trek universe with Bashir, who was secretly sent offworld by his parents (IIRC I forget the reason) to be genetically modified by aliens because (thanks to the Eugenics wars) that sort of thing was forbidden on Earth. So he was essentially an Augment hiding out. The Maquis were upset with Federation politics and essentially seceded. For all it's utopian pretense, it's clear at least as it's portrayed, that the Federation is a society with limits, and laws, and wherever you have limits and laws you have crime and a desire to game the system. Even a soft prison can feel like a prison. I can easily imagine the Federation feeling like that.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
staunch 12y ago
We will be able to do direct brain input in the future, much better than running around in a holodeck, so we will be able to fool the brain entirely. Alcohol is not forbidden, just not permitted while on duty and not served on board ship. The problem with Bashir was that he was genetically enhanced to be superior. He wasn't just treated for a medical issue. The Maquis were renegade Federation not anti-Federation though, that seems hard to avoid, you can't please everyone. The Federation has no policy against succession and no walls to act as a prison. Anyone is free to come and go. You have access to all the resources needed to live. And it's not that no one ever commits a crime, just that it's exceptionally rare, not part of regular life.
- krapp 12y ago
  It seems you remember the details a bit better than I do. Still, the world you're describing sounds like a nightmare to me.
eli_gottlieb 12y ago
All functioning societies have to have laws. That's what it is to live as an equal among equals. Unlimited liberty is unlimited power, and therefore requires either unlimited moral restraint or simply cannot exist in society. You could have a philosophical utopia in which all the laws are derived from Kant's Categorical Imperative, but those would still be laws, limiting the actions you're allowed to take. For the Federation's defense, if you wanted that kind of total liberty, you could move to some godforsaken colony world and live totally alone.