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It's understandable, but also a large reason why the U.S. prison system doesn't work well. People naturally want people to pay for their crimes, but what societ

It's understandable, but also a large reason why the U.S. prison system doesn't work well. People naturally want people to pay for their crimes, but what society actually needs is for those criminals to be rehabilitated. A very large number of the people incarcerated in the U.S. are repeat offenders, hinting that merely locking somebody in a cage and depriving them of their rights for a long time does little good after the prison term ends. There are some cases where it's simply impossible to say with some measure of certainty that somebody is rehabilitated, but even the most lenient countries (Norway and the rest of Scandinavia) have measures to protect the rest of the population in those cases. Repeatedly determining that Anders Behring Breivik continues to be a threat to society is Norway's form of capital punishment.

argumentum 12y ago
Well, I'm of the belief that certain crimes are beyond rehabilitation. No matter how "rehabilitated" Anders Breivik is, he still deserves to be locked up. He should never again interact with the society he so evidently despises.
- thirsteh 12y ago
  First, he probably will be locked up forever, unless someone declares him sane (which, in my opinion, will never happen.) Second, I would agree if you said "certain criminals are beyond rehabilitation." There are people who have incurable mental problems, but they make up a very small minority of the people incarcerated in the United States.
  - argumentum 12y ago
    I'll stick with "crimes" .. people should be rewarded or punished for what they do not for who they are (or what some doctors claim they are).
    - thirsteh 12y ago
      I didn't say put people with mental problems in prison. Here's a thought experiment: Would you treat a man who took revenge on his wife's murderer by killing them the same as the murderer, a psychopath who decided to kill the wife because they were bored? Obviously, neither One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest or American Psycho is desirable, but if you ask me to choose, you can guess which one I'd pick. (Btw. even if you disagree, the U.S. has a tremendous amount of hate-crime legislation, which does punish people for what's on their mind.)
      - argumentum 12y ago
        I totally agree motive should be a factor in sentencing, not sure where you read otherwise ..
- thatswrong0 12y ago
  Certain crimes. But how many people do you think are currently in prison that are truly beyond rehabilitation? Do you think that 68% of prisoners are mostly evil people who cannot function in society? 68% of men in prison don't have a high school diploma. Or are these mostly people who were born and raised in shitty circumstances with little hope for avoiding prison, hence why they didn't even finish high school? Do you think 1/3 of black men are simply beyond rehabilitation? Because 1 in 3 black men will end up in prison at some point in their lives. Let's just ignore the fact that the number of nonviolent drug offenders in prison and jail has increased 1,100% since 1980. Let's ignore the fact that black people use drugs at the same rates as whites and even sell drugs at lower rates yet at state and federal level they're incarcerated far more than whites http://www.csdp.org/publicservice/kids.htm http://www.csdp.org/publicservice/kids.htm . Let's ignore the fact that 4.1% of death row sentences are erroneous, and that 95+% of all convictions happen through plea bargains, meaning that the rate of false imprisonment is probably quite high, even higher than 4.1%. I'm guessing that a very, very small percentage of the prison population is beyond rehabilitation. In those cases, prison makes sense. But our prison population has exploded since 1980, and I doubt that most of the people that have been swept up in that growth are like Anders Breivik.
  - argumentum 12y ago
    I agree with you, if you read my original comment I support reducing sentences for all but the worst crimes (serial murder, mass murder, terrorism, genocide, slavery, violent rape).

argumentum 12y ago

Well, I'm of the belief that certain crimes are beyond rehabilitation. No matter how "rehabilitated" Anders Breivik is, he still deserves to be locked up. He should never again interact with the society he so evidently despises.

thirsteh 12y ago
First, he probably will be locked up forever, unless someone declares him sane (which, in my opinion, will never happen.) Second, I would agree if you said "certain criminals are beyond rehabilitation." There are people who have incurable mental problems, but they make up a very small minority of the people incarcerated in the United States.
- argumentum 12y ago
  I'll stick with "crimes" .. people should be rewarded or punished for what they do not for who they are (or what some doctors claim they are).
  - thirsteh 12y ago
    I didn't say put people with mental problems in prison. Here's a thought experiment: Would you treat a man who took revenge on his wife's murderer by killing them the same as the murderer, a psychopath who decided to kill the wife because they were bored? Obviously, neither One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest or American Psycho is desirable, but if you ask me to choose, you can guess which one I'd pick. (Btw. even if you disagree, the U.S. has a tremendous amount of hate-crime legislation, which does punish people for what's on their mind.)
    - argumentum 12y ago
      I totally agree motive should be a factor in sentencing, not sure where you read otherwise ..
thatswrong0 12y ago
Certain crimes. But how many people do you think are currently in prison that are truly beyond rehabilitation? Do you think that 68% of prisoners are mostly evil people who cannot function in society? 68% of men in prison don't have a high school diploma. Or are these mostly people who were born and raised in shitty circumstances with little hope for avoiding prison, hence why they didn't even finish high school? Do you think 1/3 of black men are simply beyond rehabilitation? Because 1 in 3 black men will end up in prison at some point in their lives. Let's just ignore the fact that the number of nonviolent drug offenders in prison and jail has increased 1,100% since 1980. Let's ignore the fact that black people use drugs at the same rates as whites and even sell drugs at lower rates yet at state and federal level they're incarcerated far more than whites http://www.csdp.org/publicservice/kids.htm http://www.csdp.org/publicservice/kids.htm . Let's ignore the fact that 4.1% of death row sentences are erroneous, and that 95+% of all convictions happen through plea bargains, meaning that the rate of false imprisonment is probably quite high, even higher than 4.1%. I'm guessing that a very, very small percentage of the prison population is beyond rehabilitation. In those cases, prison makes sense. But our prison population has exploded since 1980, and I doubt that most of the people that have been swept up in that growth are like Anders Breivik.
- argumentum 12y ago
  I agree with you, if you read my original comment I support reducing sentences for all but the worst crimes (serial murder, mass murder, terrorism, genocide, slavery, violent rape).