4 ms·

To clarify, Norway, for example, does have functional life imprisonment. They just don't have life sentences. People's prison terms can be extended for 5 years

To clarify, Norway, for example, does have functional life imprisonment. They just don't have life sentences. People's prison terms can be extended for 5 years at a time (with the option for the prisoner to petition for parole every year) if they're still considered dangerous. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Norway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Norway

argumentum 12y ago
Sure, but even if he's kept away from society for life (which is far from guaranteed), he still gets to enjoy a decent standard of living. http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00...
- logn 12y ago
  I think that giving an evil person a decent standard of living is worth it so that all the other people who eventually enter society again are properly rehabilitated. Also, like the article pointed out, I'm not sure many people really appreciate how harsh prison is. Even with cable TV and AC, it's still prison.
- tormeh 12y ago
  And so what? The prison sentence is not punishment for him - it's protection for the rest of us. Punishment has no other function than being petty revenge. I guess you could make an economic case for simpler lodgings, but the prison wasn't made for him - It would probably cost more to alter his cell for the worse than just keep it standard.
  - argumentum 12y ago
    Call me old fashioned if you will, but I support the idea of just punishment as a deterrent in violent crimes such as murder. I wouldn't call it revenge, rather justice: the idea that you are held to account for the harm you cause others.
    - thirsteh 12y ago
      It's understandable, but also a large reason why the U.S. prison system doesn't work well. People naturally want people to pay for their crimes, but what society actually needs is for those criminals to be rehabilitated. A very large number of the people incarcerated in the U.S. are repeat offenders, hinting that merely locking somebody in a cage and depriving them of their rights for a long time does little good after the prison term ends. There are some cases where it's simply impossible to say with some measure of certainty that somebody is rehabilitated, but even the most lenient countries (Norway and the rest of Scandinavia) have measures to protect the rest of the population in those cases. Repeatedly determining that Anders Behring Breivik continues to be a threat to society is Norway's form of capital punishment.
      - argumentum 12y ago
        Well, I'm of the belief that certain crimes are beyond rehabilitation. No matter how "rehabilitated" Anders Breivik is, he still deserves to be locked up. He should never again interact with the society he so evidently despises.
        thirsteh 12y ago
        First, he probably will be locked up forever, unless someone declares him sane (which, in my opinion, will never happen.) Second, I would agree if you said "certain criminals are beyond rehabilitation." There are people who have incurable mental problems, but they make up a very small minority of the people incarcerated in the United States.
        argumentum 12y ago
        I'll stick with "crimes" .. people should be rewarded or punished for what they do not for who they are (or what some doctors claim they are).
        thirsteh 12y ago
- marvin 12y ago
  This is completely incorrect. Breivik has been kept in solitary confinement since he was convicted, which is close to two years at this point. They purpose-built a separate isolation facility within the prison to house him. It's quite firmly established at this point that solitary confinement is torture, but apparently the Norwegian prison system has the discretion of deciding to do this without any input from the judicial system. In my opinion, this is a horrible blemish on an otherwise good Norwegian legal syste, but it's understandably a sore subject. There has been very little debate around this point. Hard to bring this up when most of the kids he murdered were the acquaintances or children of the biggest political party at the time.
tormeh 12y ago
That list of former and current uses of the law is pretty grim. Wow.

argumentum 12y ago

Sure, but even if he's kept away from society for life (which is far from guaranteed), he still gets to enjoy a decent standard of living. http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00...

logn 12y ago
I think that giving an evil person a decent standard of living is worth it so that all the other people who eventually enter society again are properly rehabilitated. Also, like the article pointed out, I'm not sure many people really appreciate how harsh prison is. Even with cable TV and AC, it's still prison.
tormeh 12y ago
And so what? The prison sentence is not punishment for him - it's protection for the rest of us. Punishment has no other function than being petty revenge. I guess you could make an economic case for simpler lodgings, but the prison wasn't made for him - It would probably cost more to alter his cell for the worse than just keep it standard.
- argumentum 12y ago
  Call me old fashioned if you will, but I support the idea of just punishment as a deterrent in violent crimes such as murder. I wouldn't call it revenge, rather justice: the idea that you are held to account for the harm you cause others.
  - thirsteh 12y ago
    It's understandable, but also a large reason why the U.S. prison system doesn't work well. People naturally want people to pay for their crimes, but what society actually needs is for those criminals to be rehabilitated. A very large number of the people incarcerated in the U.S. are repeat offenders, hinting that merely locking somebody in a cage and depriving them of their rights for a long time does little good after the prison term ends. There are some cases where it's simply impossible to say with some measure of certainty that somebody is rehabilitated, but even the most lenient countries (Norway and the rest of Scandinavia) have measures to protect the rest of the population in those cases. Repeatedly determining that Anders Behring Breivik continues to be a threat to society is Norway's form of capital punishment.
    - argumentum 12y ago
      Well, I'm of the belief that certain crimes are beyond rehabilitation. No matter how "rehabilitated" Anders Breivik is, he still deserves to be locked up. He should never again interact with the society he so evidently despises.
      - thirsteh 12y ago
        First, he probably will be locked up forever, unless someone declares him sane (which, in my opinion, will never happen.) Second, I would agree if you said "certain criminals are beyond rehabilitation." There are people who have incurable mental problems, but they make up a very small minority of the people incarcerated in the United States.
        argumentum 12y ago
        I'll stick with "crimes" .. people should be rewarded or punished for what they do not for who they are (or what some doctors claim they are).
        thirsteh 12y ago
marvin 12y ago
This is completely incorrect. Breivik has been kept in solitary confinement since he was convicted, which is close to two years at this point. They purpose-built a separate isolation facility within the prison to house him. It's quite firmly established at this point that solitary confinement is torture, but apparently the Norwegian prison system has the discretion of deciding to do this without any input from the judicial system. In my opinion, this is a horrible blemish on an otherwise good Norwegian legal syste, but it's understandably a sore subject. There has been very little debate around this point. Hard to bring this up when most of the kids he murdered were the acquaintances or children of the biggest political party at the time.

tormeh 12y ago

That list of former and current uses of the law is pretty grim. Wow.