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But if you had a post-scarcity society, then a competent bureaucracy is more credible. For one, you just solved the Public Choice problem. If everybody is, by o

But if you had a post-scarcity society, then a competent bureaucracy is more credible. For one, you just solved the Public Choice problem. If everybody is, by our standards, a billionaire then things will be different. Things other than material success would be the yardstick for status. Star Trek directly reflected the economic-Utopian side of Gene Roddenberry's hopes and dreams. That was explicit, deliberate and according to various documentaries, sorta drove the writers nuts. It emphasizes the positive aspects of humanity. Gene was an 8 year old in 1929 and 24 at the end of WWII, and was formed right through the teeth of the Depression. He flew 89 missions in WWII... Cyberpunk? Not my cup 'o tea.

waps 12y ago
There are 2 things that drive people in my experience. Wealth and power. If you close off one (e.g. by making people poor, or very rich, they go for the other one). If you do what capitalism does, and make real power very hard to come by, they go for wealth.
- eli_gottlieb 12y ago
  >There are 2 things that drive people in my experience. Wealth and power. Then your experience is woefully incomplete, as you've completely forgotten to account for sex. And, you know, all the more idealistic things I could list.
  - waps 12y ago
    In my worldview sex is effectively the same as power. It certainly is for one participant in the event, but of course that goes for all interactions where power is a significant factor. All the more idealistic things, especially in youthful participants, are just ways to get power and sex. Or have you never visited a global warming related event in San Francisco ? Can you say with a straight face that those events are about idealism ?
    - eli_gottlieb 12y ago
      >In my worldview sex is effectively the same as power. It certainly is for one participant in the event Then I'm afraid I must recommend you receive psychotherapy for your dangerous misapprehension. Please tell me you're single.
- ArkyBeagle 12y ago
  We stipulate up front that wealth is a solved problem. There are incredible sources of energy driving incredible machines that do everything for us. The marginal product of anyone's labor is effectively zero. The people in Star Fleet aren't doing "labor" per se - food is by machine, I presume nobody has to do their own laundry, we've completely "enslaved" machines to do literally everything we don't want to. Just IMO, but power is a narrative artifact because stories want protagonists and antagonists. Social science uses the word "status", which is better.

waps 12y ago

There are 2 things that drive people in my experience. Wealth and power. If you close off one (e.g. by making people poor, or very rich, they go for the other one). If you do what capitalism does, and make real power very hard to come by, they go for wealth.

eli_gottlieb 12y ago
>There are 2 things that drive people in my experience. Wealth and power. Then your experience is woefully incomplete, as you've completely forgotten to account for sex. And, you know, all the more idealistic things I could list.
- waps 12y ago
  In my worldview sex is effectively the same as power. It certainly is for one participant in the event, but of course that goes for all interactions where power is a significant factor. All the more idealistic things, especially in youthful participants, are just ways to get power and sex. Or have you never visited a global warming related event in San Francisco ? Can you say with a straight face that those events are about idealism ?
  - eli_gottlieb 12y ago
    >In my worldview sex is effectively the same as power. It certainly is for one participant in the event Then I'm afraid I must recommend you receive psychotherapy for your dangerous misapprehension. Please tell me you're single.
ArkyBeagle 12y ago
We stipulate up front that wealth is a solved problem. There are incredible sources of energy driving incredible machines that do everything for us. The marginal product of anyone's labor is effectively zero. The people in Star Fleet aren't doing "labor" per se - food is by machine, I presume nobody has to do their own laundry, we've completely "enslaved" machines to do literally everything we don't want to. Just IMO, but power is a narrative artifact because stories want protagonists and antagonists. Social science uses the word "status", which is better.