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I liked mostly all the Star Treks, but it bugged me that the later ones became so militarized. Zeitgeist of a post 9/11 world I supposed. I loved the optimistic

by gdubs 12y ago

I liked mostly all the Star Treks, but it bugged me that the later ones became so militarized. Zeitgeist of a post 9/11 world I supposed. I loved the optimistic future painted in TNG.

lotharbot 12y ago
> "the later ones became so militarized. Zeitgeist of a post 9/11 world" Both DS9 and Voyager were completely wrapped up prior to 9/11. Enterprise struck me as far less militarized -- though far more competently written (it gets off to a slowish start, but the later seasons are great). And the original was probably written in part by people with naval backgrounds (note how people are constantly handing Kirk clipboards to sign off on, there's a fire control room that weapons fire is sometimes directed through, etc.) I think the only thing that fits your pattern is Star Trek: Into Darkness.
- gdubs 12y ago
  Ah, quite right about the timing. I enjoyed Enterprise, but man, that theme song.
- krapp 12y ago
  I believe Gene Roddenberry was in the Navy. I'll probably be downvoted into oblivion if i'm wrong though. CBA to google it.
krapp 12y ago
On the other hand, DS9 at least, with its serial format, fleshed out a couple of alien cultures and explored some of the concepts behind the Federation in ways other series wouldn't have even been able to attempt - although there were a couple of episodes in TNG which managed to take some risks, when the writers managed to lock Gene Roddenberry in a cupboard. Even though the Cardassians were essentially Nazis in space (in a series which, literally, had Space Nazis as a thing) and the Ferengi were comic relief, it was refreshing to me to see a bit of effort put into some of the other species. The Ferengi and Cardassians, unlike the Klingons (who despite being a warp-capable species were portrayed as barely coherent psychopathic warlords) were presented as reasonable, if not very alien alternatives to the Federation point of view. TNG would never have had an episode where an alien species calls out the humans for their history of slavery and violence, it would have merely shown us an "alien" species as an allegory but DS9 did (and had the wonderful "Far Beyond the Stars" which, despite barely being in-universe, was able to state Star Trek's essential thesis more directly and profoundly than the main series itself.) And yes, it was essentially Babylon 5 (But Trek) and wound up being all about a war, and the Dominion and the Changelings were utterly disappointing. And by Voyager, the Borg had gone from being one of the most sinister and alien concepts on television to just another bunch of goons for the Federation to punch, and the only thing in my mind that Enterprise had going for it was the cynical and manipulative Vulcans. But I think, for the most part, the further Star Trek got from Roddenberry's idealism, the more its idealism actually meant something, precisely because it was flawed. The story of how humans get to paradise is much more interesting the the one about how awesome it is after they're there.

by gdubs 12y ago

I liked mostly all the Star Treks, but it bugged me that the later ones became so militarized. Zeitgeist of a post 9/11 world I supposed. I loved the optimistic future painted in TNG.

lotharbot 12y ago

> "the later ones became so militarized. Zeitgeist of a post 9/11 world" Both DS9 and Voyager were completely wrapped up prior to 9/11. Enterprise struck me as far less militarized -- though far more competently written (it gets off to a slowish start, but the later seasons are great). And the original was probably written in part by people with naval backgrounds (note how people are constantly handing Kirk clipboards to sign off on, there's a fire control room that weapons fire is sometimes directed through, etc.) I think the only thing that fits your pattern is Star Trek: Into Darkness.

gdubs 12y ago
Ah, quite right about the timing. I enjoyed Enterprise, but man, that theme song.
krapp 12y ago
I believe Gene Roddenberry was in the Navy. I'll probably be downvoted into oblivion if i'm wrong though. CBA to google it.

krapp 12y ago

On the other hand, DS9 at least, with its serial format, fleshed out a couple of alien cultures and explored some of the concepts behind the Federation in ways other series wouldn't have even been able to attempt - although there were a couple of episodes in TNG which managed to take some risks, when the writers managed to lock Gene Roddenberry in a cupboard. Even though the Cardassians were essentially Nazis in space (in a series which, literally, had Space Nazis as a thing) and the Ferengi were comic relief, it was refreshing to me to see a bit of effort put into some of the other species. The Ferengi and Cardassians, unlike the Klingons (who despite being a warp-capable species were portrayed as barely coherent psychopathic warlords) were presented as reasonable, if not very alien alternatives to the Federation point of view. TNG would never have had an episode where an alien species calls out the humans for their history of slavery and violence, it would have merely shown us an "alien" species as an allegory but DS9 did (and had the wonderful "Far Beyond the Stars" which, despite barely being in-universe, was able to state Star Trek's essential thesis more directly and profoundly than the main series itself.) And yes, it was essentially Babylon 5 (But Trek) and wound up being all about a war, and the Dominion and the Changelings were utterly disappointing. And by Voyager, the Borg had gone from being one of the most sinister and alien concepts on television to just another bunch of goons for the Federation to punch, and the only thing in my mind that Enterprise had going for it was the cynical and manipulative Vulcans. But I think, for the most part, the further Star Trek got from Roddenberry's idealism, the more its idealism actually meant something, precisely because it was flawed. The story of how humans get to paradise is much more interesting the the one about how awesome it is after they're there.