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Here's a link to Starting Strength[1]. I highly recommend it for people looking to bulk, tone, and put on some real muscle. It did wonders for me and I'm sure i

by jds375 12y ago

Here's a link to Starting Strength[1]. I highly recommend it for people looking to bulk, tone, and put on some real muscle. It did wonders for me and I'm sure it will for you too. I also recommend doing these powerlifting exercises (such as squats, bench, and deadlift) with a focus on FORM first instead of weight. It'll prevent you from getting injured and payoff when you start lifting real heavy weight. I highly recommend these videos to teach you powerlifting form[2][3][4]. Also, the nice people on r/fitness over at reddit won't mind giving you a form check if you post a video of you lifting. Seriously, start now. It'll change your life. [1] http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0982522738?pc_redir=1400896569&robot_redir=1 http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0982522738?pc_redir=1400896569... [2] http://youtube.com/watch?v=2ME8gEN54Ao&feature=kp http://youtube.com/watch?v=2ME8gEN54Ao&feature=kp [3] http://youtube.com/watch?v=EHx1gYTA-Rw http://youtube.com/watch?v=EHx1gYTA-Rw [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2wLZSdeDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2wLZSdeDg

bretthopper 12y ago
There's also a great Starting Strength Wiki: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wik...
cjf4 12y ago
Unless your rail thin and a teenager, I'd avoid Rip's diet advice. It will undoubtedly get you fat. Lyle McDonald's bodyrecomposition.com is, as far as I'm concerned, the best nutrition resource on the internet. Lyle does a great job of taking clinical research and boiling it down to practical applications for people who train.
- avn2109 12y ago
  Agreed. Mark Rippetoe's diet will make you gain body fat. In his defense, he mentions this several times in the book, writing things approximately like, "People are in love with their visible abs. This diet will break your affair off."
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- jds375 12y ago
  That's true. I really needed to bulk so it worked for me (gained 30 pounds in about half a year). That being said, for those looking to control weight and do something more manageable I would definitely recommend McDonald's guide.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
  I also think the focus on squatting and dead lifting does not produce very aesthetic results for a lot of guys. Some people have twiggy legs and benefit from putting on some lower body mass. But a lot more guys who progress to intermediate squat and deadlift numbers wind up with over sized thighs and glutes and frankly it doesn't look good. Nor is it very "functional" outside of the lifts. That kind of bulk definitely slows you down on the court/track/field. People get caught up in stuff like the deadlift because you build up to what seem like big numbers. But the fact is, it's not very impressive. Most guys can get there. And it's not very useful, athletically speaking. I think Rippetoe's original schtick was built around bulking kids up for certain positions on high school football teams. Having an extra 20# to throw around at age 17 is going to really help a lineman. I'm a bit skeptical about the wider reverence the Rippetoe approach gets these days.
  - zacharycohn 12y ago
    "the deadlift [...] is not very impressive, [...] and it's not very useful, athletically speaking." That is probably the most false statement I've ever read on the internet. Which is saying something. Athletically speaking, there is no single exercise better than the deadlift. With the squat coming in at #2.
    - a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
      If you play tennis, box, run 400m, or play basketball, then pursuing a heavy weight deadlift routine is going to compromise your performance. Sometimes it might help build some strength, but beyond a limited amount sinking a lot of training capacity into it is going to slow you down and compromise endurance. This is not remotely controversial.
      - zacharycohn 12y ago
        All of those exercises demand explosive strength from the legs. Which is what the deadlift is very, very efficient at producing. Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLVlbgwcW8#t=80 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLVlbgwcW8#t=80 This guy is doing a 47 inch box jump... out of a pool. This is what deadlifting does.
- zacharycohn 12y ago
  Diet != losing weight. The GOMAD (gallon of milk a day) diet is not designed for you to lose weight. It's designed to maximize daily caloric intake, which in turn maximizes speed of recovery. Once you're done with starting strength, you switch to something like IF (intermittent fasting) to cut the excess fat. Then you end up with lots of muscle and no fat. You can either lose fat or gain muscle. It's incredibly difficult to do both at the same time.
  - cjf4 12y ago
    GOMAD is also specifically designed for teenagers with no fat or muscle that don't know how to consume 3000 + calories/day (and I believe Rip usually wants them in the 4-5000 range). What I'm saying is that this is an inefficient approach for almost everyone outside that demographic that has any sort of interest in improved appearance (i.e. almost everyone). Your body can only build muscle at a certain rate, and the rest of the caloric surplus is going to be converted to body fat. So what I'm saying is if you are willing to pay a little bit of attention to macro nutrient intake, you can gain muscle with much less of the associated body fat that comes with bulking. This way, you have to much less to cut. More importantly, you learn how to eat properly which is essential for long term success.
    - zacharycohn 12y ago
      The point is to have a caloric surplus. Because then you can guarantee maximum recovery.
  - s_husso 12y ago
    "difficult to do both at the same time" With right combination you can do it. Targeted Keto/IF combination seems to be quite effective. Sheds fat while maintaining (or gaining) muscle mass and minimizing the impact of the diet to your strength levels. I've dropped +25kg BW while gaining +5kg of muscle mass and gaining/maintaining my big-lifts. I noticed that going from Stronglift 5x5 to Madcow really helped my recovery. Mostly as my body couldn't keep up with the heavy squatting and deadlifting too many times during the week.
avn2109 12y ago
Mark Rippetoe changed my life. I second this recommendation. And I've only learned to squat and bench properly so far. Looking forward to (if you'll forgive the pun) picking up the other lifts.
ldonley 12y ago
Another similar workout plan is Stronglifts 5x5[1]. I have never done starting strength but I am a fan of stronglifts and it has a free app that does wonders at the gym for tracking your progress. [1]http://stronglifts.com/ http://stronglifts.com/
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  I figure Stronglifts is more accessible because of the rows instead of powercleans (which are hard to do right), and as you as the app is great.
  - jdbernard 12y ago
    Same here. Rippetoe's book was fantastic for me, especially in helping to to have good form, but the Starting Strength 5x5 was the workout that actually stuck with me. IMO they compliment each other extremely well.
VLM 12y ago
Rippetoe's workout is not as simple as the article portrays "built around five old-fashioned lifts" and all that. The rumors people may have heard are true, he really does write sixty pages on how to squat properly without hurting yourself, and other exercises. The article also has a strong style over substance aspect wrt "photographs were so poorly shot". No they're actually pretty awesome if you're trying to learn how to do this safely. Its like complaining that an engineering blueprint of a perfect engine camshaft doesn't capture the fluffy marketing message of the car, well, yeah, that's kinda not the point... Its interesting how SS has taken over the field. I've been lifting on and off (mostly off) for about 30 years and will certainly start back up again sooner or later, and its interesting watching how the field has almost universally crystallized on SS for the noobs. In like, the 80s, there was a lot more variety and a lifter might start on machines or freeweights fairly randomly.
- SwellJoe 12y ago
  I have the same sort of, and similar length, history with weight training. I believe that's because it's pretty widely accepted now that free weights are more effective than machines. And, the difference is large enough that even people outside of weight lifting circles have a vague awareness of this. In the 80s, it was still really popular to use machines because they were "safer" (which is not necessarily true), they isolated specific muscles for training (mostly true, but not actually optimal), and they seemed easier than learning proper form for lifting free weights (it's still pretty easy to do it wrong with a machine). That said, my first exposure to weight training was via a Gold's Gym book that I got at a garage sale, which also focused solely on free weights. I think the gym rats have always known iron was superior to rubber bands and elaborate systems of ropes and pulleys.
  - a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
    > it's pretty widely accepted now that free weights are more effective than machines. I don't buy that. The people who say that stuff are the same ones who go on about stabilizer muscles, when there's no such thing. Machines are safer than barbells. For overhead and pull-down stuff the good machines minimize dangerous shoulder stress. Barbell squats and deadlifts quite simply are somewhat dangerous and even very experienced people manage to tweak their backs.
x0x0 12y ago
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but before starting a serious deadlifting / squat / snatch / jerk routine, please please go to a trainer. You need instruction for correct form. The aforementioned exercises will work very well for you, but if performed incorrectly they can permanently injure your back. If money is a concern, there are often private trainers (I can give references in sf) not associated with a gym that are very affordable -- eg $65/hour in sf, much less expensive elsewhere. NB: a good trainer can, at minimum, perform those exercises for reps with more than bodyweight. Many gyms -- 24 hour fitness and crunch come to mind -- employ "trainers" who appear to hopefully have read a book but are wildly unprepared to train others in exercises that can destroy body parts if performed incorrectly.
- crazygringo 12y ago
  As someone who started with Starting Strength about a year ago, and who goes to a gym in Manhattan with lots of trainers around... Nope. The book is far superior to any of the trainers I've encountered. The book has so much detail on each exercise, it will take you weeks to absorb it, but if you read relevant parts before/after each workout, to make sure you're doing everything right, you'll probably wind up with much better form and technique than a random trainer's personal opinions. And if you don't already know the correct form/technique, then how on earth are you going to evaluate which trainer you can trust? Answer: you can't. The book is the way to go, if you can be conscientious about reading it thoroughly, constantly reviewing it, and following what it says.
  - x0x0 12y ago
    As someone who started lifting a year ago: you don't know what you're talking about, but don't let that stop you from giving others advice that could hurt them. For the rest of people interested in getting strong: get a competent trainer (one easy evaluation metric is, as I mentioned, their deadlift maxes; greater than 500 pounds makes avoiding injury w/o good form very unlikely; or participation in powerlifting events; etc).
    - grannyg00se 12y ago

by jds375 12y ago

bretthopper 12y ago

There's also a great Starting Strength Wiki: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wik...

cjf4 12y ago

Unless your rail thin and a teenager, I'd avoid Rip's diet advice. It will undoubtedly get you fat. Lyle McDonald's bodyrecomposition.com is, as far as I'm concerned, the best nutrition resource on the internet. Lyle does a great job of taking clinical research and boiling it down to practical applications for people who train.

avn2109 12y ago
Agreed. Mark Rippetoe's diet will make you gain body fat. In his defense, he mentions this several times in the book, writing things approximately like, "People are in love with their visible abs. This diet will break your affair off."
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
jds375 12y ago
That's true. I really needed to bulk so it worked for me (gained 30 pounds in about half a year). That being said, for those looking to control weight and do something more manageable I would definitely recommend McDonald's guide.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
I also think the focus on squatting and dead lifting does not produce very aesthetic results for a lot of guys. Some people have twiggy legs and benefit from putting on some lower body mass. But a lot more guys who progress to intermediate squat and deadlift numbers wind up with over sized thighs and glutes and frankly it doesn't look good. Nor is it very "functional" outside of the lifts. That kind of bulk definitely slows you down on the court/track/field. People get caught up in stuff like the deadlift because you build up to what seem like big numbers. But the fact is, it's not very impressive. Most guys can get there. And it's not very useful, athletically speaking. I think Rippetoe's original schtick was built around bulking kids up for certain positions on high school football teams. Having an extra 20# to throw around at age 17 is going to really help a lineman. I'm a bit skeptical about the wider reverence the Rippetoe approach gets these days.
- zacharycohn 12y ago
  "the deadlift [...] is not very impressive, [...] and it's not very useful, athletically speaking." That is probably the most false statement I've ever read on the internet. Which is saying something. Athletically speaking, there is no single exercise better than the deadlift. With the squat coming in at #2.
  - a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
    If you play tennis, box, run 400m, or play basketball, then pursuing a heavy weight deadlift routine is going to compromise your performance. Sometimes it might help build some strength, but beyond a limited amount sinking a lot of training capacity into it is going to slow you down and compromise endurance. This is not remotely controversial.
    - zacharycohn 12y ago
      All of those exercises demand explosive strength from the legs. Which is what the deadlift is very, very efficient at producing. Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLVlbgwcW8#t=80 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLVlbgwcW8#t=80 This guy is doing a 47 inch box jump... out of a pool. This is what deadlifting does.
zacharycohn 12y ago
Diet != losing weight. The GOMAD (gallon of milk a day) diet is not designed for you to lose weight. It's designed to maximize daily caloric intake, which in turn maximizes speed of recovery. Once you're done with starting strength, you switch to something like IF (intermittent fasting) to cut the excess fat. Then you end up with lots of muscle and no fat. You can either lose fat or gain muscle. It's incredibly difficult to do both at the same time.
- cjf4 12y ago
  GOMAD is also specifically designed for teenagers with no fat or muscle that don't know how to consume 3000 + calories/day (and I believe Rip usually wants them in the 4-5000 range). What I'm saying is that this is an inefficient approach for almost everyone outside that demographic that has any sort of interest in improved appearance (i.e. almost everyone). Your body can only build muscle at a certain rate, and the rest of the caloric surplus is going to be converted to body fat. So what I'm saying is if you are willing to pay a little bit of attention to macro nutrient intake, you can gain muscle with much less of the associated body fat that comes with bulking. This way, you have to much less to cut. More importantly, you learn how to eat properly which is essential for long term success.
  - zacharycohn 12y ago
    The point is to have a caloric surplus. Because then you can guarantee maximum recovery.
- s_husso 12y ago
  "difficult to do both at the same time" With right combination you can do it. Targeted Keto/IF combination seems to be quite effective. Sheds fat while maintaining (or gaining) muscle mass and minimizing the impact of the diet to your strength levels. I've dropped +25kg BW while gaining +5kg of muscle mass and gaining/maintaining my big-lifts. I noticed that going from Stronglift 5x5 to Madcow really helped my recovery. Mostly as my body couldn't keep up with the heavy squatting and deadlifting too many times during the week.

avn2109 12y ago

Mark Rippetoe changed my life. I second this recommendation. And I've only learned to squat and bench properly so far. Looking forward to (if you'll forgive the pun) picking up the other lifts.

ldonley 12y ago

Another similar workout plan is Stronglifts 5x5[1]. I have never done starting strength but I am a fan of stronglifts and it has a free app that does wonders at the gym for tracking your progress. [1]http://stronglifts.com/ http://stronglifts.com/

sliverstorm 12y ago
I figure Stronglifts is more accessible because of the rows instead of powercleans (which are hard to do right), and as you as the app is great.
- jdbernard 12y ago
  Same here. Rippetoe's book was fantastic for me, especially in helping to to have good form, but the Starting Strength 5x5 was the workout that actually stuck with me. IMO they compliment each other extremely well.

VLM 12y ago

Rippetoe's workout is not as simple as the article portrays "built around five old-fashioned lifts" and all that. The rumors people may have heard are true, he really does write sixty pages on how to squat properly without hurting yourself, and other exercises. The article also has a strong style over substance aspect wrt "photographs were so poorly shot". No they're actually pretty awesome if you're trying to learn how to do this safely. Its like complaining that an engineering blueprint of a perfect engine camshaft doesn't capture the fluffy marketing message of the car, well, yeah, that's kinda not the point... Its interesting how SS has taken over the field. I've been lifting on and off (mostly off) for about 30 years and will certainly start back up again sooner or later, and its interesting watching how the field has almost universally crystallized on SS for the noobs. In like, the 80s, there was a lot more variety and a lifter might start on machines or freeweights fairly randomly.

SwellJoe 12y ago
I have the same sort of, and similar length, history with weight training. I believe that's because it's pretty widely accepted now that free weights are more effective than machines. And, the difference is large enough that even people outside of weight lifting circles have a vague awareness of this. In the 80s, it was still really popular to use machines because they were "safer" (which is not necessarily true), they isolated specific muscles for training (mostly true, but not actually optimal), and they seemed easier than learning proper form for lifting free weights (it's still pretty easy to do it wrong with a machine). That said, my first exposure to weight training was via a Gold's Gym book that I got at a garage sale, which also focused solely on free weights. I think the gym rats have always known iron was superior to rubber bands and elaborate systems of ropes and pulleys.
- a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
  > it's pretty widely accepted now that free weights are more effective than machines. I don't buy that. The people who say that stuff are the same ones who go on about stabilizer muscles, when there's no such thing. Machines are safer than barbells. For overhead and pull-down stuff the good machines minimize dangerous shoulder stress. Barbell squats and deadlifts quite simply are somewhat dangerous and even very experienced people manage to tweak their backs.

x0x0 12y ago

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but before starting a serious deadlifting / squat / snatch / jerk routine, please please go to a trainer. You need instruction for correct form. The aforementioned exercises will work very well for you, but if performed incorrectly they can permanently injure your back. If money is a concern, there are often private trainers (I can give references in sf) not associated with a gym that are very affordable -- eg $65/hour in sf, much less expensive elsewhere. NB: a good trainer can, at minimum, perform those exercises for reps with more than bodyweight. Many gyms -- 24 hour fitness and crunch come to mind -- employ "trainers" who appear to hopefully have read a book but are wildly unprepared to train others in exercises that can destroy body parts if performed incorrectly.

crazygringo 12y ago
As someone who started with Starting Strength about a year ago, and who goes to a gym in Manhattan with lots of trainers around... Nope. The book is far superior to any of the trainers I've encountered. The book has so much detail on each exercise, it will take you weeks to absorb it, but if you read relevant parts before/after each workout, to make sure you're doing everything right, you'll probably wind up with much better form and technique than a random trainer's personal opinions. And if you don't already know the correct form/technique, then how on earth are you going to evaluate which trainer you can trust? Answer: you can't. The book is the way to go, if you can be conscientious about reading it thoroughly, constantly reviewing it, and following what it says.
- x0x0 12y ago
  As someone who started lifting a year ago: you don't know what you're talking about, but don't let that stop you from giving others advice that could hurt them. For the rest of people interested in getting strong: get a competent trainer (one easy evaluation metric is, as I mentioned, their deadlift maxes; greater than 500 pounds makes avoiding injury w/o good form very unlikely; or participation in powerlifting events; etc).
  - grannyg00se 12y ago