3 ms·

You sound like you're trying to be sarcastic, but read plainly that sounds pretty reasonable. Especially since $DEITY would, being omniscient, know all about th

by sho 17y ago

You sound like you're trying to be sarcastic, but read plainly that sounds pretty reasonable. Especially since $DEITY would, being omniscient, know all about the deception and not dock them any Heaven Points. Hell, isn't being oppressed what religious people like? They should welcome this as an opportunity to show their unconcern with worldly things. $DEITY will be most impressed. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of his tests.

DanielBMarkham 17y ago
Sorry -- you're spinning off into religion-land. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that the entire purpose of a life, any life, is what value you give it. If you like trees, or unicorns, or puppies, or whatever -- that's really all you have: your definition of yourself. For somebody to assume your identity and make statements that go against everything you stand for -- whatever your value system -- that's about the worse thing you can do to a person, save actually physically harming them. This has nothing to do with religion or Christianity, except, I guess, that people think it's funny to pick on Christians in a way that would be reprehensible if done against any other group. Would you like to imagine what kinds of jokes we can make against ethnic groups? Minorities? People who are retarded? It's obvious that these "jokes" wouldn't be funny at all. Why the brain freeze when it's done against Christians?
- petercooper 17y ago
  I'm saying that the entire purpose of a life, any life, is what value you give it. If you like trees, or unicorns, or puppies, or whatever -- that's really all you have: your definition of yourself. Right, and not what other people think of you or your opinions. Unless you also consider a purpose of your life is what other people think of you and your statements.
- sho 17y ago
  You can't separate the religion out of it. This kind of joke wouldn't work against anyone else. It's only because of their bullshit "hard line on (something allegedly bad)" or from making a big deal about their piety and "clean lifestyle", that they're susceptible to such pranks in the first place. Reasonable people unconcerned with maintaining a squeaky clean image would indeed just laugh it off. I think it's fine to mock stupidity in all its forms, so the archaic superstition of religious belief is fair game. I'd be equally fine with mocking racism, homophobia, any other religion, etc - all of which, you'll note, would also be susceptible to this kind of attack. Coincidence? Anyway I think you're well aware of my views from other discussions so I won't repeat myself. what kinds of jokes we can make against ethnic groups? Minorities? People who are retarded?" Christianity is a choice, unlike membership in the other groups you've mentioned. That changes everything.
  - DanielBMarkham 17y ago
    You said you wouldn't repeat yourself yet you can't seem to help it, eh? Let's say I choose to believe in the Great Pumpkin. I mean I really believe in him. I've got the wall stickers, posters, the book of the great pumpkin -- everything. Now -- aside from your predilection for belittling people who don't live up to your intellectual expectations, do you think it's right for you to take over my FaceBook account and start a long diatribe about how the Great Pumpkin sucks? Don't you see how that's worse than just being an asshole? You're taking over somebody's persona on the net and making them trash their own value system. That's not civil conversation. That's not even mocking people you think are stupid. It's a whole other level of nastiness altogether.
    - mquander 17y ago
      I think that the point is that believing in the Great Pumpkin that hard is inherently absurd, and if you're going to carry on shaping your life around your belief in it, you should understand that some other people will think it's absurd, and steel yourself for some ridicule. I think breaking into people's stuff to mock them is being a pretty big asshole, but I don't think it's worse than being an asshole.
      - pyre 17y ago
        The problem is that when people get into things that hard they tend to only 'stick to their own kind.' It's really easy to be sucked into things really hard like that when you're only around other people that believe in it that hard. Why do you think that most cults have compounds, and that in some cults you're not allowed to talk to outsiders?
    - sho 17y ago
      "do you think it's right for you to take over my FaceBook account and start a long diatribe about how the Great Pumpkin sucks?" I can't believe I'm hearing this. Yes? Of course? I mean, I don't condone people hacking FB accounts, of course. But why do you think a belief as ridiculous as that deserves any protection whatsoever? I'm not really singling out Christianity, either. If someone hacked a known homophobe's Facebook account and posted photoshopped pictures of them sucking cock, or got into a racist's account and started talking about their black girlfriend, I'd applaud, and couldn't give a damn about "making them trash their own value system". And the funny thing is, if the opposite occurred and, say, a right wing nutcase hacked my FB account and could say whatever they wanted - they couldn't really do any damage, because my entire self-image isn't founded on maintaining some ridiculous social façade. It would be an embarrassing security lapse, possibly provoke some mild teasing from friends and family, and life would go on. ======= UPDATE: Man, I am a really bad debater. I'm coming across pro-vandalism and anti-peaceful-tolerance here. Despite my views on religion that's not what I wanted to say; my argumentative position is drifting towards the extreme to oppose Mr. Markham. If I were a better debater, I'd be able to resist that - we're well into "devil's advocate" territory for me by now. I do not condone these attacks. I wanted to make the point that I don't consider these attacks to be particularly hurtful or serious, and that anyone who is seriously upset "when somebody takes their identity and has them say things they never would" should lighten up. I got a little too far into "asshole mode" above too. I won't change it now but actually, I wouldn't support defacement of this Great Pumpkin believer's page. Why? Because my whole actable complaint against religion is that it's intolerant. I strongly oppose religious superstition, of course, but that's not a legitimate reason to take action against them. Simply being stupid is not evil, in and of itself. Intolerance, however, is the actable offence and that's what legitimises attacks upon religion. Now if the Followers of the Great Pumpkin had a political agenda against other segments of the worlds' population, that would be a casus belli. I would like to say, though, that if you hold beliefs that seem to make you a favourite "lulz target" then you should probably re-examine them.
astine 17y ago
If you are going to throuw around an opinoin of what religous people believe at least pretend that you aren't totally ignorant about what it is that they actually believe. Christian beliefs about the afterlife and what it takes to get a good one are varied and range from and there are some which definitely would 'dock them some Heaven Points.' I think the real point is that Christians, like muslims, Jews, Budhists, Atheists and every other person in the world, don't like to be slandered in front of their friends, family, associates, prospective employers, etc... and you're characterizing their attitudes doesn't justifiy it.
- sho 17y ago
  Thanks, but I went to a religious High School and know everything necessary about Christian beliefs. Anyway, your ludicrous superstition does not gain credibility just because others can not be bothered to learn the exact details. And well, yes, I suppose they do not like to be "slandered" in front of others. I don't remember suggesting they did. Their characters might not justify it, but they plainly explain it, or at least the motivation for it.
  - astine 17y ago
    Figures, you rarely find someone as bigoted as your appear to be who didn't have an ax to grind against some nuns or something or other. The truth of any idea (and the way people should be treated because of it) is not affected by others ignorance about it, but your ability to discuss it rationally is. And well, yes, I suppose they do not like to be "slandered" in front of others. I don't remember suggesting they did Really? your useing that tact?: Hell, isn't being oppressed what religious people like? Seriously, I'm done with you. :rolls eyes:

by sho 17y ago

DanielBMarkham 17y ago

Sorry -- you're spinning off into religion-land. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that the entire purpose of a life, any life, is what value you give it. If you like trees, or unicorns, or puppies, or whatever -- that's really all you have: your definition of yourself. For somebody to assume your identity and make statements that go against everything you stand for -- whatever your value system -- that's about the worse thing you can do to a person, save actually physically harming them. This has nothing to do with religion or Christianity, except, I guess, that people think it's funny to pick on Christians in a way that would be reprehensible if done against any other group. Would you like to imagine what kinds of jokes we can make against ethnic groups? Minorities? People who are retarded? It's obvious that these "jokes" wouldn't be funny at all. Why the brain freeze when it's done against Christians?

petercooper 17y ago
I'm saying that the entire purpose of a life, any life, is what value you give it. If you like trees, or unicorns, or puppies, or whatever -- that's really all you have: your definition of yourself. Right, and not what other people think of you or your opinions. Unless you also consider a purpose of your life is what other people think of you and your statements.
sho 17y ago
You can't separate the religion out of it. This kind of joke wouldn't work against anyone else. It's only because of their bullshit "hard line on (something allegedly bad)" or from making a big deal about their piety and "clean lifestyle", that they're susceptible to such pranks in the first place. Reasonable people unconcerned with maintaining a squeaky clean image would indeed just laugh it off. I think it's fine to mock stupidity in all its forms, so the archaic superstition of religious belief is fair game. I'd be equally fine with mocking racism, homophobia, any other religion, etc - all of which, you'll note, would also be susceptible to this kind of attack. Coincidence? Anyway I think you're well aware of my views from other discussions so I won't repeat myself. what kinds of jokes we can make against ethnic groups? Minorities? People who are retarded?" Christianity is a choice, unlike membership in the other groups you've mentioned. That changes everything.
- DanielBMarkham 17y ago
  You said you wouldn't repeat yourself yet you can't seem to help it, eh? Let's say I choose to believe in the Great Pumpkin. I mean I really believe in him. I've got the wall stickers, posters, the book of the great pumpkin -- everything. Now -- aside from your predilection for belittling people who don't live up to your intellectual expectations, do you think it's right for you to take over my FaceBook account and start a long diatribe about how the Great Pumpkin sucks? Don't you see how that's worse than just being an asshole? You're taking over somebody's persona on the net and making them trash their own value system. That's not civil conversation. That's not even mocking people you think are stupid. It's a whole other level of nastiness altogether.
  - mquander 17y ago
    I think that the point is that believing in the Great Pumpkin that hard is inherently absurd, and if you're going to carry on shaping your life around your belief in it, you should understand that some other people will think it's absurd, and steel yourself for some ridicule. I think breaking into people's stuff to mock them is being a pretty big asshole, but I don't think it's worse than being an asshole.
    - pyre 17y ago
      The problem is that when people get into things that hard they tend to only 'stick to their own kind.' It's really easy to be sucked into things really hard like that when you're only around other people that believe in it that hard. Why do you think that most cults have compounds, and that in some cults you're not allowed to talk to outsiders?
  - sho 17y ago
    "do you think it's right for you to take over my FaceBook account and start a long diatribe about how the Great Pumpkin sucks?" I can't believe I'm hearing this. Yes? Of course? I mean, I don't condone people hacking FB accounts, of course. But why do you think a belief as ridiculous as that deserves any protection whatsoever? I'm not really singling out Christianity, either. If someone hacked a known homophobe's Facebook account and posted photoshopped pictures of them sucking cock, or got into a racist's account and started talking about their black girlfriend, I'd applaud, and couldn't give a damn about "making them trash their own value system". And the funny thing is, if the opposite occurred and, say, a right wing nutcase hacked my FB account and could say whatever they wanted - they couldn't really do any damage, because my entire self-image isn't founded on maintaining some ridiculous social façade. It would be an embarrassing security lapse, possibly provoke some mild teasing from friends and family, and life would go on. ======= UPDATE: Man, I am a really bad debater. I'm coming across pro-vandalism and anti-peaceful-tolerance here. Despite my views on religion that's not what I wanted to say; my argumentative position is drifting towards the extreme to oppose Mr. Markham. If I were a better debater, I'd be able to resist that - we're well into "devil's advocate" territory for me by now. I do not condone these attacks. I wanted to make the point that I don't consider these attacks to be particularly hurtful or serious, and that anyone who is seriously upset "when somebody takes their identity and has them say things they never would" should lighten up. I got a little too far into "asshole mode" above too. I won't change it now but actually, I wouldn't support defacement of this Great Pumpkin believer's page. Why? Because my whole actable complaint against religion is that it's intolerant. I strongly oppose religious superstition, of course, but that's not a legitimate reason to take action against them. Simply being stupid is not evil, in and of itself. Intolerance, however, is the actable offence and that's what legitimises attacks upon religion. Now if the Followers of the Great Pumpkin had a political agenda against other segments of the worlds' population, that would be a casus belli. I would like to say, though, that if you hold beliefs that seem to make you a favourite "lulz target" then you should probably re-examine them.

astine 17y ago

If you are going to throuw around an opinoin of what religous people believe at least pretend that you aren't totally ignorant about what it is that they actually believe. Christian beliefs about the afterlife and what it takes to get a good one are varied and range from and there are some which definitely would 'dock them some Heaven Points.' I think the real point is that Christians, like muslims, Jews, Budhists, Atheists and every other person in the world, don't like to be slandered in front of their friends, family, associates, prospective employers, etc... and you're characterizing their attitudes doesn't justifiy it.

sho 17y ago
Thanks, but I went to a religious High School and know everything necessary about Christian beliefs. Anyway, your ludicrous superstition does not gain credibility just because others can not be bothered to learn the exact details. And well, yes, I suppose they do not like to be "slandered" in front of others. I don't remember suggesting they did. Their characters might not justify it, but they plainly explain it, or at least the motivation for it.
- astine 17y ago
  Figures, you rarely find someone as bigoted as your appear to be who didn't have an ax to grind against some nuns or something or other. The truth of any idea (and the way people should be treated because of it) is not affected by others ignorance about it, but your ability to discuss it rationally is. And well, yes, I suppose they do not like to be "slandered" in front of others. I don't remember suggesting they did Really? your useing that tact?: Hell, isn't being oppressed what religious people like? Seriously, I'm done with you. :rolls eyes: