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It sounds like an impressive speech. I understand people share his values. The bravest and most meaningful action I saw from a military person was a college ro
by spodek 12y ago
It sounds like an impressive speech. I understand people share his values.
The bravest and most meaningful action I saw from a military person was a college roommate who had returned from active duty as a Marine in the Gulf War. I don't know if his training was as intense as a SEAL's but he saw active duty and looked long and hard at his actions and those of this country and applied to become a conscientious objector.
I think he valued and lived all the things the UT guy talked about, but to me it seemed he did one thing further. After all, when a country goes to war, the other side has soldiers who share all those values too. What makes one side better than the other? I doubt many would say might should make right. I don't know if anyone can answer that question better than any other, but I believe he concluded that you have to examine your conscience and the conscience of the military for which you work and the civilians for whom it works. He told me that when he enlisted his intent was to defend his country but that his experience and thoughtful consideration showed him the U.S. military today wasn't about defense. What it was about he couldn't say for sure, but it had more to do with corporate control than defense. He felt lied to by a system that was designed to lie to him and everyone else and he couldn't see changing in his lifetime. That his participation in the military would force him to support with his actions things he could not support. This is an Ivy League guy who was decorated and nearly made the NFL and Olympics.
The UT guy talked about very important things. I agree we would all benefit from them. All his underlined parts were about changing the world. He didn't say only the military provided those things, but I think it's worth calling out that you can get them elsewhere, as well as other things you can't get from the military. I'm sure he knows plenty more than I do, but I think my friend had one extra step that I didn't see in that speech about changing the world, something about thinking deeply and considering a bigger picture about the consequences of your actions.
I'm sure he thought these things through himself, and I'm sure many soldiers do. Maybe all of them do. If they concluded they were doing right, they have the right to their conclusions. I'm not trying to say he was wrong or that the military is wrong. Everyone has their values. I just didn't see the call to examine your values in the speech. I suspect more people would become conscientious objectors if that message was stronger. Or rather, the government would have to make different decisions if potential soldiers considered bigger pictures than what he talked about.
- gesman 12y agoWhen you are thrown in the mud and choose either to sing or quit - it's YOUR spirit, and YOUR decision, not corporate control over you.
- jebblue 12y agoThe military, no military would function if each member went their own way and did their own thing. It's OK to not serve if you disagree with the leadership, just don't sign up. You can change the world by working to oust corrupt politicians, Republicans and Democrats and Libertarians. Understand though that freedom is not free, there's always someone waiting for the opportunity to take over your country and they don't care at all if you are a conscientious objector.
- smacktoward 12y agoThis issue is more complicated than you make it sound. It's absolutely true that discipline and following orders are essential to the smooth functioning of a military force. However, that does not give soldiers an excuse to leave their conscience with their civilian clothes. The entire point of the Nuremberg trials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials) was that "I was just following orders" is not a defense, when the orders in question are illegal or immoral. And illegal or immoral orders can be issued by American officers just the same as they were issued by German ones -- just ask the soldiers who served under Lieutenant William Calley in Vietnam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre). No nation's army has a monopoly on morality. So it's the responsibility of every soldier to balance the need for discipline with the need to ask conscientiously and with respect for human life and dignity.
- Nrsolis 12y agoAnd that's why there are things called ROEs: Rules of Engagement. A soldier just can't shoot anyone they see. There are very hard limits on who is considered a "combatant" and who is not. A big part of what gets soldiers and Marines on our side killed is ambiguity about who can be shot when they present a threat and who cannot. If you do anything outside of the ROE it can be considered a war crime: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383037/Clint-Lorance-guilty-Army-officer-gets-20-years-jail-murder-ordered-troops-open-Afghan-men.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383037/Clint-Loranc... And yes, the USG DOES put its own soldiers in jail. Sometimes for life.