7 ms·

Adm. McRaven Urges Graduates to Find Courage to Change the World

109 points by tqn 12y ago

coldtea 12y ago
>But, if you think about it, not only were these soldiers saved by the decisions of one person, but their children yet unborn—were also saved. And their children’s children—were saved. Yeah. Shame about the children, and the children's children of the local population though. You know, in their own homeland and all, not asking for trouble or anything...
- sreya 12y ago
  C'mon now, this isn't a political article, let's not mire the discussion in politics irrelevant to the link
  - caio1982 12y ago
    It's a motivational speech by soldiers to soldiers, I guess it's fair to debate that aspect. To be honest I was surprised to see such link at the top of HN, so I'm really curious to know what other HN fellows like coldtea think about it. EDIT: I know the folks are not soldiers, but the tone of the speech makes it sound as that IMHO
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      The tone almost makes it a recruitment speech in disguise.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    An article praising soldiers and the "change" they bring IS political (in the general sense). It's just naively political, it doesn't even stop to consider the consquences of the actions it desribes, except on one side. Soldiers = heroes, or "just honest hardworking people doing a dangerous job", is political in itself. It's pro army, for one. Some people for some reason only consider anti-war statements to be political, while statements like the ones in the article pass for some kind of unchallenged truth. (If you mean "partisan", sure, it's not. But I don't care about that, and my point was not about "democrats" vs "republicans". Don't care about either of them).
    - jebblue 12y ago
      The enemy is always at the gate, they care not that your heart bleeds for their children; they only care about making you and your children bleed so they can take what you have and destroy who you are and what your children could have become.
      - PavlovsCat 12y ago
        Nobody is pure evil, and someone who shallowly dismisses others as pure evil, is at least slightly evil. Of course, this is my personal definition of evil. However, I stand by it. Traces of nobility, gentleness and courage persist in all people, do what we will to stamp out the trend. So, too, do those characteristics which are ugly. It is just unfortunate that in the clumsy hands of a cartoonist all traits become ridiculous, leading to a certain amount of self-conscious expostulation and the desire to join battle. There is no need to sally forth, for it remains true that those things which make us human are, curiously enough, always close at hand. Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blast on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us. Forward! -- Walt Kelly, foreword to "The Pogo Papers"
        jebblue 12y ago
        I said, "the enemy is at the gate". I dismiss no one. Literature and art are the first things the enemy either takes or destroys, ironic isn't it?
        PavlovsCat 12y ago
        Unless you were being sarcistic, you did seem to imply there are people who are just being evil for the sake of being evil, and talking about "the enemy" makes it sound like a monolith very unlike to anything found on Earth; so I assume that gate is located in fantasy.
      - coldtea 12y ago
        One would be justified to say that if he was the one being invaded, in his own homeland, and had his children suffer for that. A citizen of a country with its war fingers all the way around the globe, not so much.
spodek 12y ago
It sounds like an impressive speech. I understand people share his values. The bravest and most meaningful action I saw from a military person was a college roommate who had returned from active duty as a Marine in the Gulf War. I don't know if his training was as intense as a SEAL's but he saw active duty and looked long and hard at his actions and those of this country and applied to become a conscientious objector. I think he valued and lived all the things the UT guy talked about, but to me it seemed he did one thing further. After all, when a country goes to war, the other side has soldiers who share all those values too. What makes one side better than the other? I doubt many would say might should make right. I don't know if anyone can answer that question better than any other, but I believe he concluded that you have to examine your conscience and the conscience of the military for which you work and the civilians for whom it works. He told me that when he enlisted his intent was to defend his country but that his experience and thoughtful consideration showed him the U.S. military today wasn't about defense. What it was about he couldn't say for sure, but it had more to do with corporate control than defense. He felt lied to by a system that was designed to lie to him and everyone else and he couldn't see changing in his lifetime. That his participation in the military would force him to support with his actions things he could not support. This is an Ivy League guy who was decorated and nearly made the NFL and Olympics. The UT guy talked about very important things. I agree we would all benefit from them. All his underlined parts were about changing the world. He didn't say only the military provided those things, but I think it's worth calling out that you can get them elsewhere, as well as other things you can't get from the military. I'm sure he knows plenty more than I do, but I think my friend had one extra step that I didn't see in that speech about changing the world, something about thinking deeply and considering a bigger picture about the consequences of your actions. I'm sure he thought these things through himself, and I'm sure many soldiers do. Maybe all of them do. If they concluded they were doing right, they have the right to their conclusions. I'm not trying to say he was wrong or that the military is wrong. Everyone has their values. I just didn't see the call to examine your values in the speech. I suspect more people would become conscientious objectors if that message was stronger. Or rather, the government would have to make different decisions if potential soldiers considered bigger pictures than what he talked about.
- gesman 12y ago
raverbashing 12y ago
Not giving up is great and needed more often than not However, knowing when it's not worth it is a great asset as well.
- dj-wonk 12y ago
  Exactly. Not everyone is suited to be a member of special forces. Leaving to do something better (e.g. more achievable) may be a wiser choice.
jfaucett 12y ago
This was an interesting article, though most of the points seem to revolve around the theme of "Never giving up". I found the first one particulary interesting (the make your bed one). here's the points in summary: 1. "Make your bed" - start your day off by accomplishing a small task. Little things in life matter and add up. 2. "Find someone to help you paddle" - You can't accomplish great things alone, you need friends and collegues. 3. "Measure a person by size of heart" - Judge people by their deeds not ethnicity, etc. 4. "Get over being a sugar cookie and move on" - Sometimes no matter how great you do things, they fail. Accept it, keep going. 5. "Don't be afraid of circuses" - in face of constant failure, learn from it each time, persevere, let it make you stronger. 6. "Sometimes slide down the obstacle head first" - Don't be afraid to take a risk in order to achieve greatness. 7. "Don't back down from sharks" - people/events will actively try to take you down, stand your ground, fight back. 8. "Be your best in the darkest moment" - During the hardest/most critical times, you must be calm and composed to bring your peek performance. 9. "Start singing when you're up to your neck in mud" - Be a bearer of hope, persevere in it, there is power in hope. 10. "Never ever ring the bell" - Never give up, never quit. I would be interested in knowing what other HNers have for good points they try to live by.
- melling 12y ago
  Never give up could also apply to posting to HN. This is the 3rd time this story has been posted and it's the first one to gain traction. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7778587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7778587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7796097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7796097
- stephengillie 12y ago
  I have numerous ones in my profile. My favorite is: Therein lies the best career advice I could possibly dispense: just DO things. Chase after the things that interest you and make you happy. Stop acting like you have a set path, because you don't. No one does. You shouldn't be trying to check off the boxes of life; they aren't real and they were created by other people, not you. There is no explicit path I'm following, and I'm not walking in anyone else's footsteps. I'm making it up as I go. - Charlie Hoehn
imakesnowflakes 12y ago
No offense, but this speech may impress a bunch of school boys...
- PavlovsCat 12y ago
  I agree. Between John J. Chapman's commencement address to the graduating class of Hobart College, 1900, and "Advice, like youth, probably just wasted on the young" by Mary Schmich, I got nothing but a slimy feeling out of this.
CatheryneN 12y ago
The Navy Seals I have known in my life have been the most honest, bravest, and intelligent people I have ever known. I'm grateful people like this exist in the world.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  I can't get behind people trained for the most part to kill other people. The bravest to me are those that refuse to be goaded into harming their fellow human beings at the behest of others. The line between 'brave seal' and 'tool' is a thin one.
  - Nrsolis 12y ago
    This is a horribly naive viewpoint. You've fallen into the trap of making a judgement of someone based on a popular understanding of a particular profession rather than any factual reality. And here are the facts: 1. There is evil in the world. 2. That evil sometimes hurts innocent people. 3. We need some way of protecting innocent people from evil. I'm reminded of the current hullabaloo about Boko Haram and the kidnapping of several hundred girls from a school. exactly who do you think is going to do anything about rescuing those girls? Exactly what kind of campaign do you think is needed to meet that challenge? I see from your profile that you're in the Netherlands. I spent an afternoon at the Anne Frank house several years ago. I'm guessing you feel that she deserved NO protection whatsoever? I'm always amused at the opinions of those who live in safe countries with comfortable lives and how they have no concern for the people who keep them safe and comfortable. Maybe you should learn a little more, eh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korps_Commandotroepen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korps_Commandotroepen
    - jqm 12y ago
      "I'm reminded of the current hullabaloo about Boko Haram and the kidnapping of several hundred girls from a school." Yes. In Nigeria which is what... like the 5'th largest oil exporter in the world? So who funds these problems that then have to be solved by military invasion? I'm always suspicious.
gcv 12y ago
If you're interested in the training the speaker mentioned, watch the Class 234 documentary made by Discovery in the late 1990s. It's typically up on YouTube (not entirely legally).
pmoriarty 12y ago
Is it training or is it torture?
facepalm 12y ago
I like it (unfortunately I am very far away now from ever being able to be that fit). Leaving aside the uncomfortable notion that it is all for killing people, here is another question I wonder about: what are the survival rates for Navy Seals? Are they better/worse/the same as for normal soldiers? Does all the training help with survival? It would be a shame to go through all this and then be killed in the first hour of war by some stray bullet? I don't mean to offend, I am genuinely interested. It seems fascinating if for example people are motivated to invest so much in training if the chance to die afterwards is high. Of course if it would reduce the risk it would also be a good motivator.
- jebblue 12y ago
  >> It would be a shame to go through all this and then be killed in the first hour of war by some stray bullet? It would be more of a shame to not have tried, to give up, that's what I think the point of the speech is.
  - facepalm 12y ago
    One could try less risky things?
    - jebblue 12y ago
      For how long? Weeks, months or years or even decades? Then you tell those children how long you thought it was OK for them to endure what they are going through right now.
      - facepalm 12y ago
        Not sure what you mean? What children? You think the only worthwhile risks to take are the ones where you risk your life? Or do you mean you always risk your life anyway?
- MrMember 12y ago
  That sort of information is likely classified. In any case I'm not sure how useful such information would be. They go through an insane amount of training that almost certainly would increase their survival rate in an average firefight, but the Navy doesn't spend ~$500k training a SEAL to send them into average firefights. They undertake some of the most dangerous missions in the US military.
jqm 12y ago
Very good points made in the article. Discipline, consistency, reliability, tenacity, teamwork, attention to detail are all valuable habits..... In an assistant. If you develop these qualities you might help someone who questions paradigms, thinks deeply about implications and connections between events, has an innate ability for strategy with broad vision and big dreams change the world.
dj-wonk 12y ago
In context, I think McRaven offers powerful advice. I wonder how it translates to the entrepreneurial world. Here are some observations. A. For SEALs, there is a process to get through (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEAL_selection_and_training https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEAL_select...). For entrepreneurs, there are many ways. This distinction matters: there are only so many slots for SEALs. There is no such limit for new products or services. B. In some ways, there are gatekeepers for both. SEALs have obvious gatekeepers that set the bar. SEALs have to pass their tests as defined by their superiors. Entrepreneurs have less obvious gatekeepers. By this I mean that an entrepreneur chooses their gatekeepers when deciding to select a particular business plan. Whatever they choose, they have to find a business model that works somehow for their customers and investors. C. For a SEAL, never quitting makes sense if your final goal is to be a SEAL. What if you break an ankle? Is it smarter (probably mandatory!) to ring the bell? (Do you try again later?) For an entrepreneur, never quitting means finding a way to succeed -- a way not tied to any particular business plan or technology. D. As a SEAL, if you ring the bell, how does that feel? As an entrepreneur, how does it feel to run out of money before you find a business model that works? I would guess that it matters quite a bit on why didn't make it. Did you make obvious mistakes? Did you do your best? E. If, during SEAL training, you decide that it isn't for you, is there any shame in quitting? I'm not talking about quitting simply due to exertion or pain -- I'm talking about quitting because you thought about all the implications. I've never been sleep deprived for days while also physically exhausted. What about an entrepreneur that gives it all but doesn't make it? I think there are some similarities here. One key difference is that entrepreneurs have more flexibility and control over pacing yourself than SEALs. (One can earn income while testing your business ideas, for example.) F. This speech raises some big questions. What is quitting? What is failure? (A) If a SEAL washes out, there are other ways to do public service. Adjust your goals, as needed, and try again. (B) If an entrepreneur tests a business plan and it doesn't measure up, then perhaps you pivot or walk away. In my opinion, neither is "quitting" because you are still setting goals and working hard.
justinhj 12y ago
Good speech. The numerous errors in transcription took a little away from it, especially given the first message about doing simple tasks well. A University should have higher standards on their site.
jqm 12y ago
So, how is all this going to help these guys beat the inevitably emerging robot army? The robot army will be more tenacious, more disciplined, more reliable, more obedient... in short, it will have all the qualities mentioned at a much higher level... Trying to install habits in men to the point they become machines is futile because... we have machines. And machines are controlled by conscious entities. Want to improve yourself? Don't become a machine. Work on becoming more conscious. More intelligent in ways machines never will. That's the future.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  The robot army will probably be more predictable. Tease them, lure them into a trap - boom. Watch them for a while and learn their patterns. Same as with non-robot troops. So, make them unpredictable? Their efficiency drops, they become less useful for ordinary operations. You can't win. Except by doing what the Army does - they have regular soldiers, and they have Special Forces who's mandate is to do whatever it takes, even the unpredictable. Deployed into situations where the regular kind won't work. I don't see robot forces ever approaching what we can already do with the right trained team.
  - jqm 12y ago
    Is there a computer, right now, that can beat any human alive at chess? I don't know what robotics will do. My point is larger than specifics. And, the point is.... machine like thinking will always be better done by machines. So, developing better machine like thinking in their heads isn't the way forward for humans. It's a futile battle... kind of like John Henry and the steam drill. Sure, being a big strong guy who could hammer railroad stakes all day was a valuable quality.... at one time. Before steam drills. Now, its simply a sideshow in a circus or a personal hobby.
    - sokoloff 12y ago
      Is there a computer, right now, that can beat any human alive at Go?
Bahamut 12y ago
Many of these same values are instilled in the Marine Corps, although not with as much physical intensity as the SEALS (unless you are in MARSOC) - they are good life lessons to absorb. Regularly, I see examples of people failing to cope with them. A lot of people are enamored with ideas more than action & responsibility (and/or difficulties) associated with them.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

109 points by tqn 12y ago

>But, if you think about it, not only were these soldiers saved by the decisions of one person, but their children yet unborn—were also saved. And their children’s children—were saved. Yeah. Shame about the children, and the children's children of the local population though. You know, in their own homeland and all, not asking for trouble or anything...

sreya 12y ago
C'mon now, this isn't a political article, let's not mire the discussion in politics irrelevant to the link
- caio1982 12y ago
  It's a motivational speech by soldiers to soldiers, I guess it's fair to debate that aspect. To be honest I was surprised to see such link at the top of HN, so I'm really curious to know what other HN fellows like coldtea think about it. EDIT: I know the folks are not soldiers, but the tone of the speech makes it sound as that IMHO
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    The tone almost makes it a recruitment speech in disguise.
- coldtea 12y ago
  An article praising soldiers and the "change" they bring IS political (in the general sense). It's just naively political, it doesn't even stop to consider the consquences of the actions it desribes, except on one side. Soldiers = heroes, or "just honest hardworking people doing a dangerous job", is political in itself. It's pro army, for one. Some people for some reason only consider anti-war statements to be political, while statements like the ones in the article pass for some kind of unchallenged truth. (If you mean "partisan", sure, it's not. But I don't care about that, and my point was not about "democrats" vs "republicans". Don't care about either of them).
  - jebblue 12y ago
    The enemy is always at the gate, they care not that your heart bleeds for their children; they only care about making you and your children bleed so they can take what you have and destroy who you are and what your children could have become.
    - PavlovsCat 12y ago
      Nobody is pure evil, and someone who shallowly dismisses others as pure evil, is at least slightly evil. Of course, this is my personal definition of evil. However, I stand by it. Traces of nobility, gentleness and courage persist in all people, do what we will to stamp out the trend. So, too, do those characteristics which are ugly. It is just unfortunate that in the clumsy hands of a cartoonist all traits become ridiculous, leading to a certain amount of self-conscious expostulation and the desire to join battle. There is no need to sally forth, for it remains true that those things which make us human are, curiously enough, always close at hand. Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blast on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us. Forward! -- Walt Kelly, foreword to "The Pogo Papers"
      - jebblue 12y ago
        I said, "the enemy is at the gate". I dismiss no one. Literature and art are the first things the enemy either takes or destroys, ironic isn't it?
        PavlovsCat 12y ago
        Unless you were being sarcistic, you did seem to imply there are people who are just being evil for the sake of being evil, and talking about "the enemy" makes it sound like a monolith very unlike to anything found on Earth; so I assume that gate is located in fantasy.
    - coldtea 12y ago
      One would be justified to say that if he was the one being invaded, in his own homeland, and had his children suffer for that. A citizen of a country with its war fingers all the way around the globe, not so much.

spodek 12y ago

It sounds like an impressive speech. I understand people share his values. The bravest and most meaningful action I saw from a military person was a college roommate who had returned from active duty as a Marine in the Gulf War. I don't know if his training was as intense as a SEAL's but he saw active duty and looked long and hard at his actions and those of this country and applied to become a conscientious objector. I think he valued and lived all the things the UT guy talked about, but to me it seemed he did one thing further. After all, when a country goes to war, the other side has soldiers who share all those values too. What makes one side better than the other? I doubt many would say might should make right. I don't know if anyone can answer that question better than any other, but I believe he concluded that you have to examine your conscience and the conscience of the military for which you work and the civilians for whom it works. He told me that when he enlisted his intent was to defend his country but that his experience and thoughtful consideration showed him the U.S. military today wasn't about defense. What it was about he couldn't say for sure, but it had more to do with corporate control than defense. He felt lied to by a system that was designed to lie to him and everyone else and he couldn't see changing in his lifetime. That his participation in the military would force him to support with his actions things he could not support. This is an Ivy League guy who was decorated and nearly made the NFL and Olympics. The UT guy talked about very important things. I agree we would all benefit from them. All his underlined parts were about changing the world. He didn't say only the military provided those things, but I think it's worth calling out that you can get them elsewhere, as well as other things you can't get from the military. I'm sure he knows plenty more than I do, but I think my friend had one extra step that I didn't see in that speech about changing the world, something about thinking deeply and considering a bigger picture about the consequences of your actions. I'm sure he thought these things through himself, and I'm sure many soldiers do. Maybe all of them do. If they concluded they were doing right, they have the right to their conclusions. I'm not trying to say he was wrong or that the military is wrong. Everyone has their values. I just didn't see the call to examine your values in the speech. I suspect more people would become conscientious objectors if that message was stronger. Or rather, the government would have to make different decisions if potential soldiers considered bigger pictures than what he talked about.

gesman 12y ago

raverbashing 12y ago

Not giving up is great and needed more often than not However, knowing when it's not worth it is a great asset as well.

dj-wonk 12y ago
Exactly. Not everyone is suited to be a member of special forces. Leaving to do something better (e.g. more achievable) may be a wiser choice.

jfaucett 12y ago

This was an interesting article, though most of the points seem to revolve around the theme of "Never giving up". I found the first one particulary interesting (the make your bed one). here's the points in summary: 1. "Make your bed" - start your day off by accomplishing a small task. Little things in life matter and add up. 2. "Find someone to help you paddle" - You can't accomplish great things alone, you need friends and collegues. 3. "Measure a person by size of heart" - Judge people by their deeds not ethnicity, etc. 4. "Get over being a sugar cookie and move on" - Sometimes no matter how great you do things, they fail. Accept it, keep going. 5. "Don't be afraid of circuses" - in face of constant failure, learn from it each time, persevere, let it make you stronger. 6. "Sometimes slide down the obstacle head first" - Don't be afraid to take a risk in order to achieve greatness. 7. "Don't back down from sharks" - people/events will actively try to take you down, stand your ground, fight back. 8. "Be your best in the darkest moment" - During the hardest/most critical times, you must be calm and composed to bring your peek performance. 9. "Start singing when you're up to your neck in mud" - Be a bearer of hope, persevere in it, there is power in hope. 10. "Never ever ring the bell" - Never give up, never quit. I would be interested in knowing what other HNers have for good points they try to live by.

melling 12y ago
Never give up could also apply to posting to HN. This is the 3rd time this story has been posted and it's the first one to gain traction. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7778587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7778587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7796097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7796097
stephengillie 12y ago
I have numerous ones in my profile. My favorite is: Therein lies the best career advice I could possibly dispense: just DO things. Chase after the things that interest you and make you happy. Stop acting like you have a set path, because you don't. No one does. You shouldn't be trying to check off the boxes of life; they aren't real and they were created by other people, not you. There is no explicit path I'm following, and I'm not walking in anyone else's footsteps. I'm making it up as I go. - Charlie Hoehn

imakesnowflakes 12y ago

No offense, but this speech may impress a bunch of school boys...

PavlovsCat 12y ago
I agree. Between John J. Chapman's commencement address to the graduating class of Hobart College, 1900, and "Advice, like youth, probably just wasted on the young" by Mary Schmich, I got nothing but a slimy feeling out of this.

CatheryneN 12y ago

The Navy Seals I have known in my life have been the most honest, bravest, and intelligent people I have ever known. I'm grateful people like this exist in the world.

jacquesm 12y ago
I can't get behind people trained for the most part to kill other people. The bravest to me are those that refuse to be goaded into harming their fellow human beings at the behest of others. The line between 'brave seal' and 'tool' is a thin one.
- Nrsolis 12y ago
  This is a horribly naive viewpoint. You've fallen into the trap of making a judgement of someone based on a popular understanding of a particular profession rather than any factual reality. And here are the facts: 1. There is evil in the world. 2. That evil sometimes hurts innocent people. 3. We need some way of protecting innocent people from evil. I'm reminded of the current hullabaloo about Boko Haram and the kidnapping of several hundred girls from a school. exactly who do you think is going to do anything about rescuing those girls? Exactly what kind of campaign do you think is needed to meet that challenge? I see from your profile that you're in the Netherlands. I spent an afternoon at the Anne Frank house several years ago. I'm guessing you feel that she deserved NO protection whatsoever? I'm always amused at the opinions of those who live in safe countries with comfortable lives and how they have no concern for the people who keep them safe and comfortable. Maybe you should learn a little more, eh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korps_Commandotroepen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korps_Commandotroepen
  - jqm 12y ago
    "I'm reminded of the current hullabaloo about Boko Haram and the kidnapping of several hundred girls from a school." Yes. In Nigeria which is what... like the 5'th largest oil exporter in the world? So who funds these problems that then have to be solved by military invasion? I'm always suspicious.

gcv 12y ago

If you're interested in the training the speaker mentioned, watch the Class 234 documentary made by Discovery in the late 1990s. It's typically up on YouTube (not entirely legally).

pmoriarty 12y ago

Is it training or is it torture?

facepalm 12y ago

I like it (unfortunately I am very far away now from ever being able to be that fit). Leaving aside the uncomfortable notion that it is all for killing people, here is another question I wonder about: what are the survival rates for Navy Seals? Are they better/worse/the same as for normal soldiers? Does all the training help with survival? It would be a shame to go through all this and then be killed in the first hour of war by some stray bullet? I don't mean to offend, I am genuinely interested. It seems fascinating if for example people are motivated to invest so much in training if the chance to die afterwards is high. Of course if it would reduce the risk it would also be a good motivator.

jebblue 12y ago
>> It would be a shame to go through all this and then be killed in the first hour of war by some stray bullet? It would be more of a shame to not have tried, to give up, that's what I think the point of the speech is.
- facepalm 12y ago
  One could try less risky things?
  - jebblue 12y ago
    For how long? Weeks, months or years or even decades? Then you tell those children how long you thought it was OK for them to endure what they are going through right now.
    - facepalm 12y ago
      Not sure what you mean? What children? You think the only worthwhile risks to take are the ones where you risk your life? Or do you mean you always risk your life anyway?
MrMember 12y ago
That sort of information is likely classified. In any case I'm not sure how useful such information would be. They go through an insane amount of training that almost certainly would increase their survival rate in an average firefight, but the Navy doesn't spend ~$500k training a SEAL to send them into average firefights. They undertake some of the most dangerous missions in the US military.

jqm 12y ago

Very good points made in the article. Discipline, consistency, reliability, tenacity, teamwork, attention to detail are all valuable habits..... In an assistant. If you develop these qualities you might help someone who questions paradigms, thinks deeply about implications and connections between events, has an innate ability for strategy with broad vision and big dreams change the world.

dj-wonk 12y ago

In context, I think McRaven offers powerful advice. I wonder how it translates to the entrepreneurial world. Here are some observations. A. For SEALs, there is a process to get through (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEAL_selection_and_training https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEAL_select...). For entrepreneurs, there are many ways. This distinction matters: there are only so many slots for SEALs. There is no such limit for new products or services. B. In some ways, there are gatekeepers for both. SEALs have obvious gatekeepers that set the bar. SEALs have to pass their tests as defined by their superiors. Entrepreneurs have less obvious gatekeepers. By this I mean that an entrepreneur chooses their gatekeepers when deciding to select a particular business plan. Whatever they choose, they have to find a business model that works somehow for their customers and investors. C. For a SEAL, never quitting makes sense if your final goal is to be a SEAL. What if you break an ankle? Is it smarter (probably mandatory!) to ring the bell? (Do you try again later?) For an entrepreneur, never quitting means finding a way to succeed -- a way not tied to any particular business plan or technology. D. As a SEAL, if you ring the bell, how does that feel? As an entrepreneur, how does it feel to run out of money before you find a business model that works? I would guess that it matters quite a bit on why didn't make it. Did you make obvious mistakes? Did you do your best? E. If, during SEAL training, you decide that it isn't for you, is there any shame in quitting? I'm not talking about quitting simply due to exertion or pain -- I'm talking about quitting because you thought about all the implications. I've never been sleep deprived for days while also physically exhausted. What about an entrepreneur that gives it all but doesn't make it? I think there are some similarities here. One key difference is that entrepreneurs have more flexibility and control over pacing yourself than SEALs. (One can earn income while testing your business ideas, for example.) F. This speech raises some big questions. What is quitting? What is failure? (A) If a SEAL washes out, there are other ways to do public service. Adjust your goals, as needed, and try again. (B) If an entrepreneur tests a business plan and it doesn't measure up, then perhaps you pivot or walk away. In my opinion, neither is "quitting" because you are still setting goals and working hard.

justinhj 12y ago

Good speech. The numerous errors in transcription took a little away from it, especially given the first message about doing simple tasks well. A University should have higher standards on their site.

jqm 12y ago

So, how is all this going to help these guys beat the inevitably emerging robot army? The robot army will be more tenacious, more disciplined, more reliable, more obedient... in short, it will have all the qualities mentioned at a much higher level... Trying to install habits in men to the point they become machines is futile because... we have machines. And machines are controlled by conscious entities. Want to improve yourself? Don't become a machine. Work on becoming more conscious. More intelligent in ways machines never will. That's the future.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
The robot army will probably be more predictable. Tease them, lure them into a trap - boom. Watch them for a while and learn their patterns. Same as with non-robot troops. So, make them unpredictable? Their efficiency drops, they become less useful for ordinary operations. You can't win. Except by doing what the Army does - they have regular soldiers, and they have Special Forces who's mandate is to do whatever it takes, even the unpredictable. Deployed into situations where the regular kind won't work. I don't see robot forces ever approaching what we can already do with the right trained team.
- jqm 12y ago
  Is there a computer, right now, that can beat any human alive at chess? I don't know what robotics will do. My point is larger than specifics. And, the point is.... machine like thinking will always be better done by machines. So, developing better machine like thinking in their heads isn't the way forward for humans. It's a futile battle... kind of like John Henry and the steam drill. Sure, being a big strong guy who could hammer railroad stakes all day was a valuable quality.... at one time. Before steam drills. Now, its simply a sideshow in a circus or a personal hobby.
  - sokoloff 12y ago
    Is there a computer, right now, that can beat any human alive at Go?

Bahamut 12y ago

Many of these same values are instilled in the Marine Corps, although not with as much physical intensity as the SEALS (unless you are in MARSOC) - they are good life lessons to absorb. Regularly, I see examples of people failing to cope with them. A lot of people are enamored with ideas more than action & responsibility (and/or difficulties) associated with them.

deleted 12y ago

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