5 ms·

Ask HN: Horror co-founder stories.

66 points by kimcheeme 12y ago

Anyone have stories on nasty co-founding team relationships and/or recommendations on what to look for in a co-founder?

benhamner 12y ago
Make sure you do background checks (references + backchannel).
bksenior 12y ago
In my experience the important things are: 1. Do they proactively do the tedious stuff when things aren't exciting? Passion waxes and wanes and good co-founders dig deep and push through the bottoms of the motivation cycle. 2. Would you feel comfortable with the, representing YOU if you were not around? 3. How quickly can you find a comfortable and systematic way to constructively criticize one another? There are more specific details, but these are the non-negotiables
daSn0wie 12y ago
i'd do a small throw-away project with the person before you attempt anything. if you can complete the project, then tackle something bigger. it's like training camp before full-season play.
- Spearchucker 12y ago
  Not always practical. I've almost completed a 7-year project and now find myself in the unusual position of being a technical founder in search of a non-technical co-founder. I could go out alone for sure and yet know that I'm just not good at carving out a market for my product, no matter how good I know it to be. My challenge isn't knowing what to look for (if I have a skill it's reading people) - it's finding someone suitable.
  - lnanek2 12y ago
    That doesn't mean you couldn't take a break for a hackathon, Startup Weekend, etc. to meet and try out other people.
redtexture 12y ago
Here's an example of non-alignment of founders, and ownership that did not have vesting periods...with a consequence that departing partner-founders had to deal with a major fraction of the entity owned by non-participants. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6342520 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6342520
EamonLeonard 12y ago
What do they say? What do they do? What do other people say about them? That will usually weed out most of the procrastinators, wannabes, "difficult" people etc... A bit of interpersonal chemistry going, some complimentary skills (you're looking for compatibility, after all), and some level of emotional investment on the problem being solved, wouldn't hurt either.
jt2190 12y ago
I had a friend who would "test" girlfriends by taking them camping for a few days. Camping or other intense travel that raises the level of discomfort (no running water/flush toilets/electricity/internet/air conditioning etc.) reveals someone's true nature very quickly. You'll see whether they get cranky or stay optimistic, whether they're disorganized or not, whether they carry more or less of their fair share of the load, whether they get on your nerves, etc.
- re1ser 12y ago
  This is really good idea :)
  - jpd750 12y ago
    I concur, I feel like this or any other situation to bring out true emotion is what is needed.
    - maaku 12y ago
      Such as dumping you as soon as they find out you'd rather challenge them with physical tests than communicate?
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- cududa 12y ago
  Is his name Dwight Schrute?
- lalos 12y ago
  Also a good way to find out if the don't like camping or if it's their first time. Interesting but I don't like the idea of 'testing' people.
  - hga 12y ago
    Those hardly matter; in fact, if the person was an avid camper the test would be useless, because it's designed to put them under stress in ways considered socially acceptable, and see how gracefully they degrade.
RKoutnik 12y ago
Key takeaway: Ensure your cofounders are competent through third-party verification if you can't do it yourself. I know of company cofounded by a skilled business guy and a technical guy. That's a fairly typical split, except the technical guy is absolutely useless. He hasn't learned anything new since his internship days, and insisted his code was perfect despite obvious security flaws. The business guy just took the technical guy at his word without checking to see if his skills really were at that level. What followed was a tremendous waste of investor money as the technical guy insisted on doing everything his way and creating massive loads of technical debt. Had the business guy had an independent party verify the technical guy's skills, he'd have saved himself $X00,000 in opportunity costs and years of his life.
cachebunfield 12y ago
I have a story in the making that I hope will have a happy ending. I started a company with two of my good friends whom I also happen to be living with at the moment. We're profitable and growing, but that doesn't mean we don't have problems. I am the technical co-founder while the other two handle operations and the business development side. However, they seem to be just going with the flow while I on the other hand am pouring my blood, sweat, and tears into this company. And I feel my work isn't being respected because they have unrealistic demands and sometimes complain about things not working or things not being done while they on the other hand aren't making any effort to see how they can help. It's easy for them to just delegate their tasks to our assistants but for my work, it isn't so easy. They should be hustling and trying to grow the company with their free time, but they aren't. My resentment has been growing against them and lately it's been putting a strain on our relationship. I think us starting out as friends has made us avoid talking about the deep issues that underly this predicament. In the end, I can't do this without them and they can't do it without me. How can I approach this situation? The obvious answer is to sit down, talk, and make my issues be known but before I do that, I need some good advice. I also want to mention our equity is split three ways evenly with no vesting.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  I hope with you but that looks like something that needs attention, don't wait too long with addressing all this, once tempers get frayed it is a lot harder to re-establish a dialogue.
- yepyepyep 12y ago
  I also want to mention our equity is split three ways evenly with no vesting. Woah. Never ever do that again. You've given away the one tool that is used to deal with the issues you list. Not to mention no VC will touch you until you include vesting. But may be you've no plans to raise funding. Now on to your question, I would begin by making sure that they are assigned goals that are as challenging as yours. If you feel they can help with growth, make that an official part of their day to day job. They will either succeed or fa at it. They will either work hard to achieve it or not make an attempt. Either case, when you make it "official", its good for everyone and gives everyone clarity.
bthornbury 12y ago
The ability to think independently is the key. A cofounder who is constantly looking to you for the next step will bring you down. Look for people who have proven track record of motivating themselves and executing their own ideas. This does not necessarily need to be in the form of a startup. Of course there are other things like chemistry and skill, but independent thinking is absolutely critical.
olivernewth 12y ago
I did a course in founder dilemmas this semester at MIT taught by Professor Matt Marx. The recurring theme from the course was that poorly considered early decisions could have lasting consequences. One of the main issues was how homophilous relationships (classmates, family) between co-founders had significantly lower success rates than non-homophilous. From this, the one lesson I've definitely learnt is to look for someone drastically different to myself when trying to find a co-founder. A suggested read is 'The Founder's Dilemmas' by Noam Wasserman, full of a lot of lessons that can often be avoided.
Turing_Machine 12y ago
Paying attention to how the person treats the wait staff at dinner can also give you a quick insight into their character (this works for both business and personal relationships). Treating the waiter like scum is a gigantic red flag, at least for me.

66 points by kimcheeme 12y ago

Anyone have stories on nasty co-founding team relationships and/or recommendations on what to look for in a co-founder?

benhamner 12y ago

Make sure you do background checks (references + backchannel).

bksenior 12y ago

In my experience the important things are: 1. Do they proactively do the tedious stuff when things aren't exciting? Passion waxes and wanes and good co-founders dig deep and push through the bottoms of the motivation cycle. 2. Would you feel comfortable with the, representing YOU if you were not around? 3. How quickly can you find a comfortable and systematic way to constructively criticize one another? There are more specific details, but these are the non-negotiables

daSn0wie 12y ago

i'd do a small throw-away project with the person before you attempt anything. if you can complete the project, then tackle something bigger. it's like training camp before full-season play.

Spearchucker 12y ago
Not always practical. I've almost completed a 7-year project and now find myself in the unusual position of being a technical founder in search of a non-technical co-founder. I could go out alone for sure and yet know that I'm just not good at carving out a market for my product, no matter how good I know it to be. My challenge isn't knowing what to look for (if I have a skill it's reading people) - it's finding someone suitable.
- lnanek2 12y ago
  That doesn't mean you couldn't take a break for a hackathon, Startup Weekend, etc. to meet and try out other people.

redtexture 12y ago

Here's an example of non-alignment of founders, and ownership that did not have vesting periods...with a consequence that departing partner-founders had to deal with a major fraction of the entity owned by non-participants. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6342520 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6342520

EamonLeonard 12y ago

What do they say? What do they do? What do other people say about them? That will usually weed out most of the procrastinators, wannabes, "difficult" people etc... A bit of interpersonal chemistry going, some complimentary skills (you're looking for compatibility, after all), and some level of emotional investment on the problem being solved, wouldn't hurt either.

jt2190 12y ago

I had a friend who would "test" girlfriends by taking them camping for a few days. Camping or other intense travel that raises the level of discomfort (no running water/flush toilets/electricity/internet/air conditioning etc.) reveals someone's true nature very quickly. You'll see whether they get cranky or stay optimistic, whether they're disorganized or not, whether they carry more or less of their fair share of the load, whether they get on your nerves, etc.

re1ser 12y ago
This is really good idea :)
- jpd750 12y ago
  I concur, I feel like this or any other situation to bring out true emotion is what is needed.
  - maaku 12y ago
    Such as dumping you as soon as they find out you'd rather challenge them with physical tests than communicate?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
cududa 12y ago
Is his name Dwight Schrute?
lalos 12y ago
Also a good way to find out if the don't like camping or if it's their first time. Interesting but I don't like the idea of 'testing' people.
- hga 12y ago
  Those hardly matter; in fact, if the person was an avid camper the test would be useless, because it's designed to put them under stress in ways considered socially acceptable, and see how gracefully they degrade.

RKoutnik 12y ago

Key takeaway: Ensure your cofounders are competent through third-party verification if you can't do it yourself. I know of company cofounded by a skilled business guy and a technical guy. That's a fairly typical split, except the technical guy is absolutely useless. He hasn't learned anything new since his internship days, and insisted his code was perfect despite obvious security flaws. The business guy just took the technical guy at his word without checking to see if his skills really were at that level. What followed was a tremendous waste of investor money as the technical guy insisted on doing everything his way and creating massive loads of technical debt. Had the business guy had an independent party verify the technical guy's skills, he'd have saved himself $X00,000 in opportunity costs and years of his life.

cachebunfield 12y ago

I have a story in the making that I hope will have a happy ending. I started a company with two of my good friends whom I also happen to be living with at the moment. We're profitable and growing, but that doesn't mean we don't have problems. I am the technical co-founder while the other two handle operations and the business development side. However, they seem to be just going with the flow while I on the other hand am pouring my blood, sweat, and tears into this company. And I feel my work isn't being respected because they have unrealistic demands and sometimes complain about things not working or things not being done while they on the other hand aren't making any effort to see how they can help. It's easy for them to just delegate their tasks to our assistants but for my work, it isn't so easy. They should be hustling and trying to grow the company with their free time, but they aren't. My resentment has been growing against them and lately it's been putting a strain on our relationship. I think us starting out as friends has made us avoid talking about the deep issues that underly this predicament. In the end, I can't do this without them and they can't do it without me. How can I approach this situation? The obvious answer is to sit down, talk, and make my issues be known but before I do that, I need some good advice. I also want to mention our equity is split three ways evenly with no vesting.

jacquesm 12y ago
I hope with you but that looks like something that needs attention, don't wait too long with addressing all this, once tempers get frayed it is a lot harder to re-establish a dialogue.
yepyepyep 12y ago
I also want to mention our equity is split three ways evenly with no vesting. Woah. Never ever do that again. You've given away the one tool that is used to deal with the issues you list. Not to mention no VC will touch you until you include vesting. But may be you've no plans to raise funding. Now on to your question, I would begin by making sure that they are assigned goals that are as challenging as yours. If you feel they can help with growth, make that an official part of their day to day job. They will either succeed or fa at it. They will either work hard to achieve it or not make an attempt. Either case, when you make it "official", its good for everyone and gives everyone clarity.

bthornbury 12y ago

The ability to think independently is the key. A cofounder who is constantly looking to you for the next step will bring you down. Look for people who have proven track record of motivating themselves and executing their own ideas. This does not necessarily need to be in the form of a startup. Of course there are other things like chemistry and skill, but independent thinking is absolutely critical.

olivernewth 12y ago

I did a course in founder dilemmas this semester at MIT taught by Professor Matt Marx. The recurring theme from the course was that poorly considered early decisions could have lasting consequences. One of the main issues was how homophilous relationships (classmates, family) between co-founders had significantly lower success rates than non-homophilous. From this, the one lesson I've definitely learnt is to look for someone drastically different to myself when trying to find a co-founder. A suggested read is 'The Founder's Dilemmas' by Noam Wasserman, full of a lot of lessons that can often be avoided.

Turing_Machine 12y ago

Paying attention to how the person treats the wait staff at dinner can also give you a quick insight into their character (this works for both business and personal relationships). Treating the waiter like scum is a gigantic red flag, at least for me.