5 ms·

There's proof and proof. No one has managed to prove other humans experience emotions, or even exist. Given a hypothetical model of a continually manipulated

by Lerc 12y ago

There's proof and proof. No one has managed to prove other humans experience emotions, or even exist. Given a hypothetical model of a continually manipulated memory and consciousness you could even argue that you can't prove that you yourself have emotions (you might merely have the mistaken belief that you experience them). To take a more pragmatic approach to proof (good enough but not absolute) Humans and some animals experience emotions. At the very least most Mammals. Probably not all animals. A trickier proposition would be whether all vertebrates do, that's a different level of debate entirely. If you can't take things like the Monkey fairness tests as a sign of emotions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg&feature=player_detailpage#t=75 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg&feature=player_d... then you have a standard of proof that a lot of humans wouldn't meet.

deleted 12y ago
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olouv 12y ago
I'd highly recommend the Blackfish documentary about killer whales regarding mammal emotions (trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OEjYquyjcg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OEjYquyjcg). Especially this part where a mother is separated from its baby, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWFo6kf21Hw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWFo6kf21Hw ; it gives pretty good insight about whether animals can experience emotions.
- meowface 12y ago
  Yep, I absolutely agree. Even if mammal emotions have not been scientifically "proven", I think there's a lot of strong evidence that they do experience most or all basic emotions. It's not like it's very shocking that they would, either, considering humans aren't that distantly related from them.
  - koralatov 12y ago
    As someone who has two cats, and has had a dog and a cat previously, I'm always amazed when I come across people who categorically state that animals don't have emotions. Spend a small amount of time with a cat or a dog, and it becomes pretty clear that they have moods and emotional states, albeit simpler ones that humans. I realise that domestication will have changed animals and their environmental responses, but I find it very hard to believe that dogs or cats would have developed emotions from scratch in the ~10,000 years since they were domesticated. In my experience, those who claim animals don't have emotions are usually justifying some kind of behaviour; in one case, it was a hunter, and another, someone who was generally unpleasant and cruel to animals. The former was otherwise a nice guy, though I found his hobby extremely distasteful; the latter was an irredeemable arsehole.
    - dkersten 12y ago
      Spend a small amount of time with a cat or a dog, and it becomes pretty clear that they have moods and emotional states Completely agree. Anecdotal I know, but I've experienced a few cases that make me certain that cats (and therefore other animals) do, indeed, have moods and emotions. The first time I was away from my cat for more than a day (I was away for three), she sat in my front window the entire time and wouldn't leave. I had a friend feed her and she barely left to eat, wouldn't play or otherwise interact. When I got home, she saw me through the window and started meowing and pawing at the window. When I came in the door, she flopped on her back on the ground in front of me and started purring. A friend of mine has a cat that she had to bottle feed. He (the cat) is now ultra-protective of her and gets extremely jealous when she pets her other cats - occasionally going so far as to attack the other cats for it, or not letting her pet him afterwards. That's only two of many examples. The stories that I've heard from dog-owner friends make a good case for dogs having emotions and moods too.
      - kbenson 12y ago
        We have a cat like that. He was taken from his mother too young, so over attached some. He gets upset if my wife pets any of our cats in front of him, and will sit approximately six feet away, facing away, and ignoring us if we call him over (generally you just have to look his direction). His ears twitch, so you know he heard you, he's just too stubborn to give in.
- dec0dedab0de 12y ago
  The whale is also pretty good. It's a documentary about a killer whale that was stuck in an inlet in Canada for years. It does a job at pulling strings, but it sold me on the animals have emotions bit. http://www.thewhalemovie.com/ http://www.thewhalemovie.com/
genofon 12y ago
This realy impressed me: Koko the Gorilla watching a sad movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWxCM6llL60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWxCM6llL60
- iterationx 12y ago
  Pug watches Homeward Bound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnstd0ASQHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnstd0ASQHg
gitaarik 12y ago
Human are animals too in the end. We are just a bit more evolved than the other animals, emotion wise. So, I think emotions just evolve with the species. Maybe the mice are starting to get emotions for liking running in a wheel. The slug is just coincidence I would say. Russell Stannard can explain it very nicely: http://fixyt.com/watch?v=IF54xqYhIGA http://fixyt.com/watch?v=IF54xqYhIGA
- genofon 12y ago
  >We are just a bit more evolved than the other animals, emotion wise his point is that we don't have a scientific way to measure emotions. In my opinion if we have emotions we should demonstrate that other animals don't not the opposite. Why do you assume that we are more evolved? The only evidence we have is that we are better at building and using tools. "More evolved" can be defined in a lot of different ways (why are we more evolved than a wasp?) I think the idea that humans are more evolved it's just a anthropocentric assumptions.
mentat 12y ago
I actually made a similar argument in a graduate psychology class at an ivy league as things got a bit heated over whether animals could suffer. I might have said something like, "If you get hit in the face in such a way you can't use words, how can I know you're actually suffering?"

by Lerc 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

olouv 12y ago

I'd highly recommend the Blackfish documentary about killer whales regarding mammal emotions (trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OEjYquyjcg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OEjYquyjcg). Especially this part where a mother is separated from its baby, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWFo6kf21Hw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWFo6kf21Hw ; it gives pretty good insight about whether animals can experience emotions.

meowface 12y ago
Yep, I absolutely agree. Even if mammal emotions have not been scientifically "proven", I think there's a lot of strong evidence that they do experience most or all basic emotions. It's not like it's very shocking that they would, either, considering humans aren't that distantly related from them.
- koralatov 12y ago
  As someone who has two cats, and has had a dog and a cat previously, I'm always amazed when I come across people who categorically state that animals don't have emotions. Spend a small amount of time with a cat or a dog, and it becomes pretty clear that they have moods and emotional states, albeit simpler ones that humans. I realise that domestication will have changed animals and their environmental responses, but I find it very hard to believe that dogs or cats would have developed emotions from scratch in the ~10,000 years since they were domesticated. In my experience, those who claim animals don't have emotions are usually justifying some kind of behaviour; in one case, it was a hunter, and another, someone who was generally unpleasant and cruel to animals. The former was otherwise a nice guy, though I found his hobby extremely distasteful; the latter was an irredeemable arsehole.
  - dkersten 12y ago
    Spend a small amount of time with a cat or a dog, and it becomes pretty clear that they have moods and emotional states Completely agree. Anecdotal I know, but I've experienced a few cases that make me certain that cats (and therefore other animals) do, indeed, have moods and emotions. The first time I was away from my cat for more than a day (I was away for three), she sat in my front window the entire time and wouldn't leave. I had a friend feed her and she barely left to eat, wouldn't play or otherwise interact. When I got home, she saw me through the window and started meowing and pawing at the window. When I came in the door, she flopped on her back on the ground in front of me and started purring. A friend of mine has a cat that she had to bottle feed. He (the cat) is now ultra-protective of her and gets extremely jealous when she pets her other cats - occasionally going so far as to attack the other cats for it, or not letting her pet him afterwards. That's only two of many examples. The stories that I've heard from dog-owner friends make a good case for dogs having emotions and moods too.
    - kbenson 12y ago
      We have a cat like that. He was taken from his mother too young, so over attached some. He gets upset if my wife pets any of our cats in front of him, and will sit approximately six feet away, facing away, and ignoring us if we call him over (generally you just have to look his direction). His ears twitch, so you know he heard you, he's just too stubborn to give in.
dec0dedab0de 12y ago
The whale is also pretty good. It's a documentary about a killer whale that was stuck in an inlet in Canada for years. It does a job at pulling strings, but it sold me on the animals have emotions bit. http://www.thewhalemovie.com/ http://www.thewhalemovie.com/

genofon 12y ago

This realy impressed me: Koko the Gorilla watching a sad movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWxCM6llL60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWxCM6llL60

iterationx 12y ago
Pug watches Homeward Bound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnstd0ASQHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnstd0ASQHg

gitaarik 12y ago

Human are animals too in the end. We are just a bit more evolved than the other animals, emotion wise. So, I think emotions just evolve with the species. Maybe the mice are starting to get emotions for liking running in a wheel. The slug is just coincidence I would say. Russell Stannard can explain it very nicely: http://fixyt.com/watch?v=IF54xqYhIGA http://fixyt.com/watch?v=IF54xqYhIGA

genofon 12y ago
>We are just a bit more evolved than the other animals, emotion wise his point is that we don't have a scientific way to measure emotions. In my opinion if we have emotions we should demonstrate that other animals don't not the opposite. Why do you assume that we are more evolved? The only evidence we have is that we are better at building and using tools. "More evolved" can be defined in a lot of different ways (why are we more evolved than a wasp?) I think the idea that humans are more evolved it's just a anthropocentric assumptions.

mentat 12y ago

I actually made a similar argument in a graduate psychology class at an ivy league as things got a bit heated over whether animals could suffer. I might have said something like, "If you get hit in the face in such a way you can't use words, how can I know you're actually suffering?"