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> Recent medical and biological studies are showing that we are, in fact, evolved to live with an entire symbiotic ecosystem of fungus and bacteria. And the tot

> Recent medical and biological studies are showing that we are, in fact, evolved to live with an entire symbiotic ecosystem of fungus and bacteria. And the total war we have waged on all things microbial in the last century may have been to our detriment. Aren't we living much longer then before though?

4t4g24h3 12y ago
Aren't decreasing infant and child mortality rates making it falsely appear so to some extent?
- derleth 12y ago
  Infectious disease was a huge killer of children.
- atomicUpdate 12y ago
  Your question is a bit confusing... If a baby/child doesn't die, then the only logical conclusion is that it is (and by extension "us" are) living longer...which validates his statement.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    Yeah, but decreasing only this infant mortality does not make the individuals live longer. It's just that we have been efficient at removing one cause of death at one end of the spectrum, but not at the other end so much. So as long as you are born and alive, your life expectancy is not really increasing versus people who were alive 50 years ago, after the discovery of penicillin let's say.
    - NegativeK 12y ago
      Infant and child mortality is down _and_ we're living longer.
      - ekianjo 12y ago
        > _and_ we're living longer. This is mainly due to the improvement of hospital facilities and the end of life treatments. we are not living longer better - the older you get the more cripple you are likely to survive. What really matters in life expectancy is the ability to live longer in good health.
        meric 12y ago
        The improvement of hospital facilities owe a great deal to humanity's ability to destroy germs at will when it is important to do so, e.g. during/after surgery. http://jfh.sagepub.com/content/14/3/195.abstract http://jfh.sagepub.com/content/14/3/195.abstract Hospitals were death traps 200 years ago.
- SoftwareMaven 12y ago
  Especially when combined with really good acute medical care and reductions in infections. Of course, how much of the infection reduction is a result of washing with soap is an open question.
  - _ak 12y ago
    Ignaz Semmelweis came up with his germ theory after observing a strong correlation of infections with whether people performing certain tasks in hospitals washed their hands or not.
- roel_v 12y ago
  Yes, this is true. Life expectancy of adults has gone up, but only a bit; the heavy increase in average age is due to a heavy drop off of birth/child mortality. The average media reporting and understanding of statistics makes it seem as if a 50 year old person in medieval times was a rare occurrence, which it was not. (at least I think this is what you were saying?)
mattlutze 12y ago
My understanding has been that we live longer because we get kids through childhood (vaccinations against diseases they can't yet handle, antibiotics for the particularly nasty bugs) and are now much more effective at treating acute trauma, cancers and such. How much your armpits smell doesn't really have a lot to do with longevity...

4t4g24h3 12y ago

Aren't decreasing infant and child mortality rates making it falsely appear so to some extent?

derleth 12y ago
Infectious disease was a huge killer of children.
atomicUpdate 12y ago
Your question is a bit confusing... If a baby/child doesn't die, then the only logical conclusion is that it is (and by extension "us" are) living longer...which validates his statement.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  Yeah, but decreasing only this infant mortality does not make the individuals live longer. It's just that we have been efficient at removing one cause of death at one end of the spectrum, but not at the other end so much. So as long as you are born and alive, your life expectancy is not really increasing versus people who were alive 50 years ago, after the discovery of penicillin let's say.
  - NegativeK 12y ago
    Infant and child mortality is down _and_ we're living longer.
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      > _and_ we're living longer. This is mainly due to the improvement of hospital facilities and the end of life treatments. we are not living longer better - the older you get the more cripple you are likely to survive. What really matters in life expectancy is the ability to live longer in good health.
      - meric 12y ago
        The improvement of hospital facilities owe a great deal to humanity's ability to destroy germs at will when it is important to do so, e.g. during/after surgery. http://jfh.sagepub.com/content/14/3/195.abstract http://jfh.sagepub.com/content/14/3/195.abstract Hospitals were death traps 200 years ago.
SoftwareMaven 12y ago
Especially when combined with really good acute medical care and reductions in infections. Of course, how much of the infection reduction is a result of washing with soap is an open question.
- _ak 12y ago
  Ignaz Semmelweis came up with his germ theory after observing a strong correlation of infections with whether people performing certain tasks in hospitals washed their hands or not.
roel_v 12y ago
Yes, this is true. Life expectancy of adults has gone up, but only a bit; the heavy increase in average age is due to a heavy drop off of birth/child mortality. The average media reporting and understanding of statistics makes it seem as if a 50 year old person in medieval times was a rare occurrence, which it was not. (at least I think this is what you were saying?)

mattlutze 12y ago

My understanding has been that we live longer because we get kids through childhood (vaccinations against diseases they can't yet handle, antibiotics for the particularly nasty bugs) and are now much more effective at treating acute trauma, cancers and such. How much your armpits smell doesn't really have a lot to do with longevity...