3 ms·

"guys without a college education are getting hired" While I agree wholeheartedly with the thrust of your comment, I have to say - I think the age of the colle

by sho 17y ago

"guys without a college education are getting hired" While I agree wholeheartedly with the thrust of your comment, I have to say - I think the age of the college degree is in terminal decline, and nowhere is this more evident than on the cutting edge of IT. I don't think we're quite there yet that we can declare the college degree to be irrelevant but we're close. In my company it's a "that's nice" thing. Like being a boy scout. Very good for character. Now, onto your demonstrating your ability, and showing you can fit in, which is all we actually care about. If a school-leaver who wanted to be a programmer asked me today whether he should go to college, I would have difficulty answering him/her. I am leaning towards "don't bother". And FWIW, I went to college.

arghnoname 17y ago
There are certainly a lot of jobs that don't really require a college education for a person of decent intellect, and some kinds of programming are some of them, but I do think there are also careers that require a level of dedicated study that is really difficult for most people to accomplish outside of a structured learning environment like college and where it's difficult to quickly learn it on the job. FWIW, I didn't go to college. I've often tried to follow lesson plans for the fellows that have, but it can be hard to crack into certain markets without work experience or verified education in an area.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
dasil003 17y ago
Absolutely true. I don't think a college degree has any correlation to programming skill at all. I completed an MIT-based CS curriculum with all graduate-level classes my senior year. Had I not also been working full time as a web developer, and dabbling in the web since 1993, my degree would have made me virtually unhirable as a web developer. On the other hand, the CS theory gives a very solid theoretical base that makes me a better programmer in all aspects of what I do. None of this stuff is exclusively available in a CS degree, all this information is available for free online if you know where to look. Most decent practitioners will pick up a lot of this stuff intuitively without formal training, but not with the same breadth or formality. The stuff I did in my CS degree, such as optimizing binary code, writing a (subset of) Java compiler from scratch, and writing radiosity and monte carlo 3d renderers is demonstrative of a certain practical ability to deal with complex subjects that I consider valuable to all types of programmers. Therefore I think a CS degree can continue to stay very relevant, as long as they stick with theoretical CS and don't turn programs into Java and C# farms. That said, the skills to succeed in a theoretical CS program do not necessarily translate into the ability to get things done in a real world environment, and it would also be a mistake to use it as some sort of litmus test since a college environment is not for everyone.

by sho 17y ago

arghnoname 17y ago

There are certainly a lot of jobs that don't really require a college education for a person of decent intellect, and some kinds of programming are some of them, but I do think there are also careers that require a level of dedicated study that is really difficult for most people to accomplish outside of a structured learning environment like college and where it's difficult to quickly learn it on the job. FWIW, I didn't go to college. I've often tried to follow lesson plans for the fellows that have, but it can be hard to crack into certain markets without work experience or verified education in an area.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

dasil003 17y ago

Absolutely true. I don't think a college degree has any correlation to programming skill at all. I completed an MIT-based CS curriculum with all graduate-level classes my senior year. Had I not also been working full time as a web developer, and dabbling in the web since 1993, my degree would have made me virtually unhirable as a web developer. On the other hand, the CS theory gives a very solid theoretical base that makes me a better programmer in all aspects of what I do. None of this stuff is exclusively available in a CS degree, all this information is available for free online if you know where to look. Most decent practitioners will pick up a lot of this stuff intuitively without formal training, but not with the same breadth or formality. The stuff I did in my CS degree, such as optimizing binary code, writing a (subset of) Java compiler from scratch, and writing radiosity and monte carlo 3d renderers is demonstrative of a certain practical ability to deal with complex subjects that I consider valuable to all types of programmers. Therefore I think a CS degree can continue to stay very relevant, as long as they stick with theoretical CS and don't turn programs into Java and C# farms. That said, the skills to succeed in a theoretical CS program do not necessarily translate into the ability to get things done in a real world environment, and it would also be a mistake to use it as some sort of litmus test since a college environment is not for everyone.