4 ms·

I see you've found the strawfeminists. http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341 http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341 HSSSSSSSSSS!

joshuapants 12y ago
> Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman. Our Blood by Andrea Dworkin, 1976 It's not a strawmyn when it's based on reality. Not all feminists, not even all radical feminists espouse views like this, but they exist and to brush them under the rug impedes meaningful discourse.
- detcader 12y ago
  This is pretty lazy. Understanding radical feminism and its context both in the 70s and today takes time, reading, and empathy. You're opting for feel-good MRA and it's boring.
  - joshuapants 12y ago
    I don't identify as an "MRA" nor do I think your assessment of my post as "boring" is cogent. In fact, I would consider your attempted ad-hominem lazy.
    - detcader 12y ago
      Your assumption that I'm actually opting-in to standard rules of debate rather than just making a general comment is also boring, for the same reason your other post was: I've seen it before, it's old. You aren't wrong, you're just uninformed. You should read more of what women write.
      - joshuapants 12y ago
        Ah, the classic "I can't make a substantive argument so I'll just dismiss you" gambit. It's a bit overplayed though. I really have to take exception at your suggestion that I haven't read enough things written by women, because I have: from The Tale of Genji to Feminist Interpretations of Saint Augustine
- beat 12y ago
  Andrea Dworkin hardly represents the vast, vast majority of feminists. You're identifying an entire group with a lone, extremist, and broadly rejected voice. I don't think anyone is denying Andrea Dworkin exists. I think people are denying that she's relevant to this discussion, except as a way to keep blaming women.
  - joshuapants 12y ago
    Please don't put words in my mouth.
    - beat 12y ago
      You brought up Andrea Dworkin, not me, and you suggested she represents feminism, not me.
      - joshuapants 12y ago
        No, the parent comment brought up the idea that radical feminists with despicable beliefs don't exist and tried to brush them under the table. I posted one example of many and clearly said > Not all feminists, not even all radical feminists espouse views like this, but they exist You are putting words in my mouth by saying I claimed they were representative. It's intellectually dishonest to say otherwise, though given the level of discourse you've shown elsewhere on this post it's clear I shouldn't expect any better.
arzugula 12y ago
Ahh it must have been straw-feminists who lobbied successfully for the Tender Years Doctrine, the Duluth Model, and VAWA? http://www.rdo-olr.uottawa.ca/index2.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=dd_download&fid=503&Itemid=842 http://www.rdo-olr.uottawa.ca/index2.php?option=com_sobi2&so... Straw-feminists that routinely lobby against equal parenting legislation? https://nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/20980-as-it-was-and-ever-shall-be-now-opposes-equal-rights-for-fathers https://nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/20980-as-it-was... Straw-feminists that suppress gender symmetry in domestic violence? http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V71-Straus_Thirty-Years-Denying-Evidence-PV_10.pdf http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V71-Straus_Thirty-Years-Denyin... Straw-feminists that compare the life of the western woman to life in a nazi concentration camp? http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/american_jewish_history/v091/91.2fermaglich.html http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/... Straw-feminists that claim "otherwise decent guys will rape and not even think that it’s wrong." https://web.archive.org/web/20060421031452/http://feministing.com/archives/004880.html https://web.archive.org/web/20060421031452/http://feministin... Please point us to all the feminist action for equal _human_ rights, not just self-serving political and social policy. Tell us all about the feminist outrage over men's suicide rates or the gender disparity in federal medical research funding? Feminist picketing outside of family courts in protest of men's lack of custody rights? Feminist sponsored legislation that gives men equal reproductive rights? We'll wait... In the mean time, how about if feminists could at least let those of us actually interested in _human_ rights have a discussion without pulling the fire alarm?

joshuapants 12y ago

> Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman. Our Blood by Andrea Dworkin, 1976 It's not a strawmyn when it's based on reality. Not all feminists, not even all radical feminists espouse views like this, but they exist and to brush them under the rug impedes meaningful discourse.

detcader 12y ago
This is pretty lazy. Understanding radical feminism and its context both in the 70s and today takes time, reading, and empathy. You're opting for feel-good MRA and it's boring.
- joshuapants 12y ago
  I don't identify as an "MRA" nor do I think your assessment of my post as "boring" is cogent. In fact, I would consider your attempted ad-hominem lazy.
  - detcader 12y ago
    Your assumption that I'm actually opting-in to standard rules of debate rather than just making a general comment is also boring, for the same reason your other post was: I've seen it before, it's old. You aren't wrong, you're just uninformed. You should read more of what women write.
    - joshuapants 12y ago
      Ah, the classic "I can't make a substantive argument so I'll just dismiss you" gambit. It's a bit overplayed though. I really have to take exception at your suggestion that I haven't read enough things written by women, because I have: from The Tale of Genji to Feminist Interpretations of Saint Augustine
beat 12y ago
Andrea Dworkin hardly represents the vast, vast majority of feminists. You're identifying an entire group with a lone, extremist, and broadly rejected voice. I don't think anyone is denying Andrea Dworkin exists. I think people are denying that she's relevant to this discussion, except as a way to keep blaming women.
- joshuapants 12y ago
  Please don't put words in my mouth.
  - beat 12y ago
    You brought up Andrea Dworkin, not me, and you suggested she represents feminism, not me.
    - joshuapants 12y ago
      No, the parent comment brought up the idea that radical feminists with despicable beliefs don't exist and tried to brush them under the table. I posted one example of many and clearly said > Not all feminists, not even all radical feminists espouse views like this, but they exist You are putting words in my mouth by saying I claimed they were representative. It's intellectually dishonest to say otherwise, though given the level of discourse you've shown elsewhere on this post it's clear I shouldn't expect any better.

arzugula 12y ago

Ahh it must have been straw-feminists who lobbied successfully for the Tender Years Doctrine, the Duluth Model, and VAWA? http://www.rdo-olr.uottawa.ca/index2.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=dd_download&fid=503&Itemid=842 http://www.rdo-olr.uottawa.ca/index2.php?option=com_sobi2&so... Straw-feminists that routinely lobby against equal parenting legislation? https://nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/20980-as-it-was-and-ever-shall-be-now-opposes-equal-rights-for-fathers https://nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/20980-as-it-was... Straw-feminists that suppress gender symmetry in domestic violence? http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V71-Straus_Thirty-Years-Denying-Evidence-PV_10.pdf http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V71-Straus_Thirty-Years-Denyin... Straw-feminists that compare the life of the western woman to life in a nazi concentration camp? http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/american_jewish_history/v091/91.2fermaglich.html http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/... Straw-feminists that claim "otherwise decent guys will rape and not even think that it’s wrong." https://web.archive.org/web/20060421031452/http://feministing.com/archives/004880.html https://web.archive.org/web/20060421031452/http://feministin... Please point us to all the feminist action for equal _human_ rights, not just self-serving political and social policy. Tell us all about the feminist outrage over men's suicide rates or the gender disparity in federal medical research funding? Feminist picketing outside of family courts in protest of men's lack of custody rights? Feminist sponsored legislation that gives men equal reproductive rights? We'll wait... In the mean time, how about if feminists could at least let those of us actually interested in _human_ rights have a discussion without pulling the fire alarm?