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FTA: > The last few weeks have been very difficult for women in tech: > Gurbaksh Chahal - then-CEO of a startup, was allegedly video taped violently attacking

by cheez 12y ago

FTA: > The last few weeks have been very difficult for women in tech: > Gurbaksh Chahal - then-CEO of a startup, was allegedly video taped violently attacking a former partner 117 times in 30 mins (He was finally fired some time after this was made public) My reaction when I first read this: "wow, the guy beat up his company partner AND a woman, at that. What an asshole." Then I clicked through (note: he's still an asshole). If you actually click through and read this, it is completely unrelated to tech. The partner that was attacked was a girlfriend. Not a company partner at all. I'm not condoning the behaviour, obviously, but I feel like this article is setting the stage to create a "men vs women" thing in tech. If we spell it out, a full two out of five points the authors use to make their case can be summarized as: A guy who has a temper problem and runs a tech company attacked a girlfriend who had nothing to do with the tech company. Everyone wanted to see proof. Why is this particular instance difficult for women in tech? Why not everywhere? Why is this not used as an example of perhaps the stresses that people are under that cause them to behave this way? Is there a link to aggression and CEOs? This would be a better set of questions to take away from that incident than "if you work in tech and you are a woman, will you get beat up on a daily basis?" > The last thing we want is for people reading this to be put on the defensive The last thing I want is for people who want to bend the truth this much to be on the front page of HN. The other stuff you wrote about? All great stuff. No one wants rapey emails. Even if you are fine as hell, you should be free from getting groped or otherwise harassed. Don't adopt tangentially related stories to create a narrative that is more dire than real life. It just makes me shut off to anything else you want to say and then I don't want to work with you at all.

steveklabnik 12y ago
> The partner that was attacked was a girlfriend. Not a company partner at all. Many people have switched to saying 'partner' for all relationships to help demonstrate their support for gay marriage. > Everyone wanted to see proof. He already pled guilty. > Why is this particular instance difficult for women in tech? Well, it's an example of someone's incredibly personal abuse story possibly being shown to millions of people against their will. Also, he was the CEO of a tech startup, and the tech startup media did all the reporting on it, and all his investors literally said 'congratulations, I'm glad this is behind you' after he pled guilty. > Why not everywhere? Something can be a problem in a certain industry, and also in general. Both statements can be true.
- cheez 12y ago
  > Also, he was the CEO of a tech startup, and the tech startup media did all the reporting on it, and all his investors literally said 'congratulations, I'm glad this is behind you' after he pled guilty. Thank you for spelling it out for me. This bit with the inevstors apparently condoning the behaviour is what I was missing. So what do you think should happen? The man pleaded guilty and paid his due, presumably. Should his career be forever destroyed? I'm curious.
- mreiland 12y ago
  > Also, he was the CEO of a tech startup, and the tech startup media did all the reporting on it, and all his investors literally said 'congratulations, I'm glad this is behind you' after he pled guilty. Still has little to do with gender bias. The investors are there for the money. I've seen companies keep known alcoholics around because they provide enough value for said company to deal with it. The issue isn't that it happened, it's attributing it to simple gender bias. It's dishonest.
  - steveklabnik 12y ago
    Nobody is claiming that it's cause is simply bias. It's a particular instance of the general structural issues women face.
    - mreiland 12y ago
      men face the exact same issues. It's akin to women complaining that they have to purchase gasoline in order to make it to work daily. So do men, why is that something the women are rallying around?
      - steveklabnik 12y ago
        If men and women face the same issues, and women are working towards fixing those issues, I'm not sure why you're so upset. Isn't that positive?
joaren 12y ago
Exactly. What's going on is that the feminists of MVC are looking at the extremes: extreme abuse, or extreme success. What they don't care about is that this is an industry where 40 hour work weeks are a luxury, and the average neckbeard sysadmin is despised by HR even as he fixes their boxes for the n'th time. As a general rule of thumb: if women have it bad, men have it worse. But since the bottom half of men are invisible, everyone focuses on the 'poor' victimized women instead. Roy Baumeister's "Is There Anything Good About Men?" explains this well, but they'd never read it because it's "MRA".
- kmf 12y ago
  > As a general rule of thumb: if women have it bad, men have it worse. Can you honestly write that and actually believe it? Even better, can you give some examples to justify it? That's a pretty big claim, and one that, at face value, seems pretty unlikely.
  - joaren 12y ago
    Absolutely. Go look at the Middle East, visit Tehran. See how many 80 year old male taxi drivers there are. The men are obliged to support to women into old age, who are legally entitled to privileges. See how many 80 year old women do the same. Of course this gets rewritten into a "woman are victims" narrative where they aren't allowed to leave the house, even though few Iranian women care to change this situation. Women have in group bias, the Women are Wonderful effect exists, and the bottom half of the men are invisible. If you really want to understand this as a man, start to engage in feminist discussions with a female nickname. All of a sudden, you can be hyperbolic, hypersensitive and hysterical, and people will somehow find a way to excuse such behaviour. Post the exact same comment as a man, and you will not only be dismissed, but often seen as a credible threat.
  - Fomite 12y ago
    I can't even read it with a straight face.
    - joaren 12y ago

by cheez 12y ago

steveklabnik 12y ago

> The partner that was attacked was a girlfriend. Not a company partner at all. Many people have switched to saying 'partner' for all relationships to help demonstrate their support for gay marriage. > Everyone wanted to see proof. He already pled guilty. > Why is this particular instance difficult for women in tech? Well, it's an example of someone's incredibly personal abuse story possibly being shown to millions of people against their will. Also, he was the CEO of a tech startup, and the tech startup media did all the reporting on it, and all his investors literally said 'congratulations, I'm glad this is behind you' after he pled guilty. > Why not everywhere? Something can be a problem in a certain industry, and also in general. Both statements can be true.

cheez 12y ago
> Also, he was the CEO of a tech startup, and the tech startup media did all the reporting on it, and all his investors literally said 'congratulations, I'm glad this is behind you' after he pled guilty. Thank you for spelling it out for me. This bit with the inevstors apparently condoning the behaviour is what I was missing. So what do you think should happen? The man pleaded guilty and paid his due, presumably. Should his career be forever destroyed? I'm curious.
mreiland 12y ago
> Also, he was the CEO of a tech startup, and the tech startup media did all the reporting on it, and all his investors literally said 'congratulations, I'm glad this is behind you' after he pled guilty. Still has little to do with gender bias. The investors are there for the money. I've seen companies keep known alcoholics around because they provide enough value for said company to deal with it. The issue isn't that it happened, it's attributing it to simple gender bias. It's dishonest.
- steveklabnik 12y ago
  Nobody is claiming that it's cause is simply bias. It's a particular instance of the general structural issues women face.
  - mreiland 12y ago
    men face the exact same issues. It's akin to women complaining that they have to purchase gasoline in order to make it to work daily. So do men, why is that something the women are rallying around?
    - steveklabnik 12y ago
      If men and women face the same issues, and women are working towards fixing those issues, I'm not sure why you're so upset. Isn't that positive?

joaren 12y ago

Exactly. What's going on is that the feminists of MVC are looking at the extremes: extreme abuse, or extreme success. What they don't care about is that this is an industry where 40 hour work weeks are a luxury, and the average neckbeard sysadmin is despised by HR even as he fixes their boxes for the n'th time. As a general rule of thumb: if women have it bad, men have it worse. But since the bottom half of men are invisible, everyone focuses on the 'poor' victimized women instead. Roy Baumeister's "Is There Anything Good About Men?" explains this well, but they'd never read it because it's "MRA".

kmf 12y ago
> As a general rule of thumb: if women have it bad, men have it worse. Can you honestly write that and actually believe it? Even better, can you give some examples to justify it? That's a pretty big claim, and one that, at face value, seems pretty unlikely.
- joaren 12y ago
  Absolutely. Go look at the Middle East, visit Tehran. See how many 80 year old male taxi drivers there are. The men are obliged to support to women into old age, who are legally entitled to privileges. See how many 80 year old women do the same. Of course this gets rewritten into a "woman are victims" narrative where they aren't allowed to leave the house, even though few Iranian women care to change this situation. Women have in group bias, the Women are Wonderful effect exists, and the bottom half of the men are invisible. If you really want to understand this as a man, start to engage in feminist discussions with a female nickname. All of a sudden, you can be hyperbolic, hypersensitive and hysterical, and people will somehow find a way to excuse such behaviour. Post the exact same comment as a man, and you will not only be dismissed, but often seen as a credible threat.
- Fomite 12y ago
  I can't even read it with a straight face.
  - joaren 12y ago