4 ms·

However, the sad truth is that most people do not have the intellectual capabilities to do significant research in those hard problems. So I agree with the gran

However, the sad truth is that most people do not have the intellectual capabilities to do significant research in those hard problems. So I agree with the grandparent post.

avz 12y ago
Intellectual capability is not a fixed parameter for every person. If there is anything we're better at than the current automation, it is the ability to adapt.
- adrianN 12y ago
  Are you seriously claiming that a large fraction of the population can, with some elbow grease, do cutting edge research? Most people I know struggle with the science they have to learn in school.
  - avz 12y ago
    I'm claiming that with some elbow grease people can increase the fraction of the population which can do the research. I'm not sure what the upper bound on the fraction would be, but so far historical record shows it steadily increasing. We should work at it and see where we can get. (And hopefully by the time we bump against the ceiling implants and genetics will come to our aid.)
ap22213 12y ago
I think more importantly, the cost for participating in such work is way too high. Imagine that you're one in the small percent of people with the capacity to do this work. (Some of you may be in that group.) Think about how hard it would be to try to participate, assuming you're not 'in the network'.
Liesmith 12y ago
Again, intellectual capabilities are not what makes you immune to automation. We can make smart robots. We can't make those smart robots visit cancer patients in a hospital, or serve me food while playing a violin at a restaurant at my tenth wedding anniversary, or perform a moving and/or erotic song and dance at a concert. Well, we could, but none of those things would go over well or have the desired effect. We also can't make a robot to make startling leaps like "hey, I think the PHASES OF THE MOON are controlling the strength of the tides! Holy crap!" only one of those three jobs is necessarily a product of intelligence.
- waps 12y ago
  > We can't make those smart robots visit cancer patients in a hospital, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7tYwnqot6M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7tYwnqot6M > or serve me food while playing a violin at a restaurant at my tenth wedding anniversary, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOLL59nIkrA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOLL59nIkrA > or perform a moving and/or erotic song and dance at a concert. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kM3n64WJmo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kM3n64WJmo > Well, we could, but none of those things would go over well or have the desired effect. People seem to be enjoying the last 2 robots plenty. As for the first one, robot nurses, I think they'll massively prefer it over not having anyone. Baby boomers didn't have nearly enough kids, so they won't have any reasonable amount of attendants during old age. People that were never born can't take care of them. This is especially true in Europe, but even in America it's a pretty reasonable argument to make. > We also can't make a robot to make startling leaps like "hey, I think the PHASES OF THE MOON are controlling the strength of the tides! Holy crap!" I think you need to visit a university. Or even better, a pharma company, or an oil company. The times of people making those associations are long, long over. Now people clean databases before they get fed into the computers that make the real discoveries, and fix any blockages in the equipment. Oh and implement the bureaucracy, of course. Mathematical discoveries, it's been 2 years now since one was actually made by a human. It's been decades since the last real mathematical discovery that wasn't at least "proof-assisted". Same goes for physics and it's becoming more and more true in chemistry (it's already true in commercial chemistry and pharma).
  - Liesmith 12y ago
    Hatsune Miku is far from erotic except to a specific subset of fetishists, the robot restaurant is a gimmick, and study after study has demonstrated that people need actual human contact in the nursery and in times of stress or illness. People who are raised by machines fail to thrive. People who are visited and cared for by human beings recover better from all manner of illnesses. When I said that we could automate these jobs but they would fail, I was not speaking from ignorance.
    - waps 12y ago

However, the sad truth is that most people do not have the intellectual capabilities to do significant research in those hard problems. So I agree with the grandparent post.

avz 12y ago

Intellectual capability is not a fixed parameter for every person. If there is anything we're better at than the current automation, it is the ability to adapt.

adrianN 12y ago
Are you seriously claiming that a large fraction of the population can, with some elbow grease, do cutting edge research? Most people I know struggle with the science they have to learn in school.
- avz 12y ago
  I'm claiming that with some elbow grease people can increase the fraction of the population which can do the research. I'm not sure what the upper bound on the fraction would be, but so far historical record shows it steadily increasing. We should work at it and see where we can get. (And hopefully by the time we bump against the ceiling implants and genetics will come to our aid.)

ap22213 12y ago

I think more importantly, the cost for participating in such work is way too high. Imagine that you're one in the small percent of people with the capacity to do this work. (Some of you may be in that group.) Think about how hard it would be to try to participate, assuming you're not 'in the network'.

Liesmith 12y ago

Again, intellectual capabilities are not what makes you immune to automation. We can make smart robots. We can't make those smart robots visit cancer patients in a hospital, or serve me food while playing a violin at a restaurant at my tenth wedding anniversary, or perform a moving and/or erotic song and dance at a concert. Well, we could, but none of those things would go over well or have the desired effect. We also can't make a robot to make startling leaps like "hey, I think the PHASES OF THE MOON are controlling the strength of the tides! Holy crap!" only one of those three jobs is necessarily a product of intelligence.

waps 12y ago
> We can't make those smart robots visit cancer patients in a hospital, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7tYwnqot6M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7tYwnqot6M > or serve me food while playing a violin at a restaurant at my tenth wedding anniversary, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOLL59nIkrA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOLL59nIkrA > or perform a moving and/or erotic song and dance at a concert. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kM3n64WJmo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kM3n64WJmo > Well, we could, but none of those things would go over well or have the desired effect. People seem to be enjoying the last 2 robots plenty. As for the first one, robot nurses, I think they'll massively prefer it over not having anyone. Baby boomers didn't have nearly enough kids, so they won't have any reasonable amount of attendants during old age. People that were never born can't take care of them. This is especially true in Europe, but even in America it's a pretty reasonable argument to make. > We also can't make a robot to make startling leaps like "hey, I think the PHASES OF THE MOON are controlling the strength of the tides! Holy crap!" I think you need to visit a university. Or even better, a pharma company, or an oil company. The times of people making those associations are long, long over. Now people clean databases before they get fed into the computers that make the real discoveries, and fix any blockages in the equipment. Oh and implement the bureaucracy, of course. Mathematical discoveries, it's been 2 years now since one was actually made by a human. It's been decades since the last real mathematical discovery that wasn't at least "proof-assisted". Same goes for physics and it's becoming more and more true in chemistry (it's already true in commercial chemistry and pharma).
- Liesmith 12y ago
  Hatsune Miku is far from erotic except to a specific subset of fetishists, the robot restaurant is a gimmick, and study after study has demonstrated that people need actual human contact in the nursery and in times of stress or illness. People who are raised by machines fail to thrive. People who are visited and cared for by human beings recover better from all manner of illnesses. When I said that we could automate these jobs but they would fail, I was not speaking from ignorance.
  - waps 12y ago