5 ms·

French railway operator orders hundreds of new trains that are too big

22 points by kercker 12y ago

ChuckMcM 12y ago
So I wonder if they will re-do the stations or re-do the trains. It seems the older stations which are too narrow would probably benefit from an upgrade, but I could imagine they might not have the space to make them any wider than they are now.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  It's literally a four line article, and one of them is "Construction work has begun on widening hundreds of platforms."
- meric 12y ago
  They're going to first spend €400m upgrading their train station platforms by widening the space for train tracks, and then later we'll find out on Hacker News: "200 Upgraded French Train Platforms 'too thin for pedestrian traffic'".
  - doxcf434 12y ago
    Right, the french pedestrian network will have failed to communicate the correct specifications to the platform operators.
- sirdogealot 12y ago
  Most subway stations I have frequented can certainly afford losing 10 or 20 centimeters of platform space so I wouldn't be too concerned.
ekianjo 12y ago
Ah, the SNCF... they are professionals in wasting public money and slackers in everything. I can't remember the number of times my train was delayed, cancelled, or stopped in the middle of the countryside for no reason. And when shit happens, there's one thing you can expect from them: zero communication and zero responsibilities.
- Argorak 12y ago
  The party responsible for the blunder is actually the RFF, the railway system provider, which provided the SNCF with false data. http://www.france24.com/en/20140521-french-trains-wide-old-stations-sncf-order/ http://www.france24.com/en/20140521-french-trains-wide-old-s...
- sirdogealot 12y ago
  I was staying in Paris, France for a few months with a local friend a while back... she worked for SNCF. Apparently suicide is a huge problem in France, and most of the time when a train is delayed or you are stopped in the middle of the tracks it's because they're quickly picking up body parts. That's also the reason for the lack of communication on behalf of the train operators. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_France http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_France
  - kalleboo 12y ago
    Here in Japan, the most common delay reason I see on the signs is "passenger injury". I think we all understand that they don't mean it's a grandma who fell over and hurt her leg...
    - sirdogealot 12y ago
      I am sorry to hear that that is a common train delay reason experienced in Japan. I have never been. Apparently Japan has an abnormally high suicide rate too. It ranks 10th in the world according to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_ra... while france is 26th. I would call a single suicide an abnormally high rate but I digress...
  - negativity 12y ago
    You'd still expect that they'd have some kind of open-ended vague parlance for suicide-by-train. In NYC subways, a conductor will at least mention on the intercom that delays are being experienced due to "train traffic", "signaling problems", "mechanical difficulties", "medical emergencies" or "police activity." A suicide could easily be categorized as a medical emergency, hence the ambulances.
robzyb 12y ago
The article makes it sound horrible, but I wonder how bad it really is. For instance, they've "only" spent $50m so far compensating. That's only 0.33% of the total $15bn budget for the trains. Even if they end up spending a whole $1bn widening platforms - that's "only" a 6.66% cost blowout. In the context of infrastructure projects, a <10% budget blowout doesn't sound so bad :P
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  Compared to the clusterfuck of extending the San Francisco subway system, it sounds like a bargain. By contrast, I've grown to love the subway system in LA to the point that I look forward to visiting so I can ride it.
  - batiudrami 12y ago
    Holy crap, someone who loves LA public transport? Admittedly SF's is...odd, but I'd say it's much better than LA's. They're both got nothing on NY or Chicago though, obviously. Edit: This is from a tourist perspective to all four cities, so I only have a little experience with each of them.
- Dorian-Marie 12y ago
  And it's actually to improve old train stations so not that bad if we can get larger train.
- gbog 12y ago
  > The article makes it sound horrible Yes, it feels like "look we found something to say about the French abd how they are bad a planning!" I have the same impression when reading my home country's newspapers about UK or USA, it's like a jealous girl saying about the pretty one: "Look, she has a red spot today!". And this means UK is jealous about France, which is nice the know...
  - makomk 12y ago
    Almost but not quite. If it happened in the UK it'd be all over the UK news as evidence of how broken Britain's train system is, as cstross pointed out on Twitter earlier. It's mostly surprising because we're used to the French actually being competent at running train systems unlike us.
anigbrowl 12y ago
Construction work has begun on widening hundreds of platforms. I hope he means narrowing them, otherwise the problem is just going to get worse :)
- herbig 12y ago
  The trains are too wide or the platforms are too narrow. One of those problems needs to be addressed.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    I guess in rail terminology the platform includes the track section, but I always think of it as the part you stand on while you're waiting for the train since that is the part that is raised above track level - so wider track areas would necessitate narrower platforms. The definition of platform is a raised surface, after all.
Argorak 12y ago
Probably a better source is this: http://www.france24.com/en/20140521-french-trains-wide-old-stations-sncf-order/ http://www.france24.com/en/20140521-french-trains-wide-old-s... a) This only applies to very old platforms, build by standards over 50 years ago. b) If the trains were ordered by the older standards, i can imagine an issue that newer platforms would need to be widened (modern trains try to provide gapless entry). So, all in all, the problem was found late (unfortunate), but the real problem is: platforms following different standards which should probably be unified anyways.
- icefox 12y ago
  Sounds like a long term win anyway, now all future trains can be wider.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
makmanalp 12y ago
I read some speculation on a reddit thread that this was no accident but a backhanded way of forcing modernization: Enough money and effort goes into supporting old trains and train stations in terms of switching trains, personnel, repairs, little bridges to fit smaller trains into wide stations etc that the difference between that and going ahead with the modernization wouldn't be that big. But if there were political objections to such a renovation project from some unknown group, this would be a good way to force their hand.
bloodmoney 12y ago
Well fuck me runnin
dang 12y ago
Url changed from http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27502184 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27502184.
kolev 12y ago
Poor journalism across the board! None of the articles mentions any specifics. How much wider?!
- informatimago 12y ago
  In any case it is rather insignificant, on the order of the decimeter!

22 points by kercker 12y ago

So I wonder if they will re-do the stations or re-do the trains. It seems the older stations which are too narrow would probably benefit from an upgrade, but I could imagine they might not have the space to make them any wider than they are now.

ceejayoz 12y ago
It's literally a four line article, and one of them is "Construction work has begun on widening hundreds of platforms."
meric 12y ago
They're going to first spend €400m upgrading their train station platforms by widening the space for train tracks, and then later we'll find out on Hacker News: "200 Upgraded French Train Platforms 'too thin for pedestrian traffic'".
- doxcf434 12y ago
  Right, the french pedestrian network will have failed to communicate the correct specifications to the platform operators.
sirdogealot 12y ago
Most subway stations I have frequented can certainly afford losing 10 or 20 centimeters of platform space so I wouldn't be too concerned.

ekianjo 12y ago

Ah, the SNCF... they are professionals in wasting public money and slackers in everything. I can't remember the number of times my train was delayed, cancelled, or stopped in the middle of the countryside for no reason. And when shit happens, there's one thing you can expect from them: zero communication and zero responsibilities.

Argorak 12y ago
The party responsible for the blunder is actually the RFF, the railway system provider, which provided the SNCF with false data. http://www.france24.com/en/20140521-french-trains-wide-old-stations-sncf-order/ http://www.france24.com/en/20140521-french-trains-wide-old-s...
sirdogealot 12y ago
I was staying in Paris, France for a few months with a local friend a while back... she worked for SNCF. Apparently suicide is a huge problem in France, and most of the time when a train is delayed or you are stopped in the middle of the tracks it's because they're quickly picking up body parts. That's also the reason for the lack of communication on behalf of the train operators. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_France http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_France
- kalleboo 12y ago
  Here in Japan, the most common delay reason I see on the signs is "passenger injury". I think we all understand that they don't mean it's a grandma who fell over and hurt her leg...
  - sirdogealot 12y ago
    I am sorry to hear that that is a common train delay reason experienced in Japan. I have never been. Apparently Japan has an abnormally high suicide rate too. It ranks 10th in the world according to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_ra... while france is 26th. I would call a single suicide an abnormally high rate but I digress...
- negativity 12y ago
  You'd still expect that they'd have some kind of open-ended vague parlance for suicide-by-train. In NYC subways, a conductor will at least mention on the intercom that delays are being experienced due to "train traffic", "signaling problems", "mechanical difficulties", "medical emergencies" or "police activity." A suicide could easily be categorized as a medical emergency, hence the ambulances.

robzyb 12y ago

The article makes it sound horrible, but I wonder how bad it really is. For instance, they've "only" spent $50m so far compensating. That's only 0.33% of the total $15bn budget for the trains. Even if they end up spending a whole $1bn widening platforms - that's "only" a 6.66% cost blowout. In the context of infrastructure projects, a <10% budget blowout doesn't sound so bad :P

anigbrowl 12y ago
Compared to the clusterfuck of extending the San Francisco subway system, it sounds like a bargain. By contrast, I've grown to love the subway system in LA to the point that I look forward to visiting so I can ride it.
- batiudrami 12y ago
  Holy crap, someone who loves LA public transport? Admittedly SF's is...odd, but I'd say it's much better than LA's. They're both got nothing on NY or Chicago though, obviously. Edit: This is from a tourist perspective to all four cities, so I only have a little experience with each of them.
Dorian-Marie 12y ago
And it's actually to improve old train stations so not that bad if we can get larger train.
gbog 12y ago
> The article makes it sound horrible Yes, it feels like "look we found something to say about the French abd how they are bad a planning!" I have the same impression when reading my home country's newspapers about UK or USA, it's like a jealous girl saying about the pretty one: "Look, she has a red spot today!". And this means UK is jealous about France, which is nice the know...
- makomk 12y ago
  Almost but not quite. If it happened in the UK it'd be all over the UK news as evidence of how broken Britain's train system is, as cstross pointed out on Twitter earlier. It's mostly surprising because we're used to the French actually being competent at running train systems unlike us.

anigbrowl 12y ago

Construction work has begun on widening hundreds of platforms. I hope he means narrowing them, otherwise the problem is just going to get worse :)

herbig 12y ago
The trains are too wide or the platforms are too narrow. One of those problems needs to be addressed.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  I guess in rail terminology the platform includes the track section, but I always think of it as the part you stand on while you're waiting for the train since that is the part that is raised above track level - so wider track areas would necessitate narrower platforms. The definition of platform is a raised surface, after all.

Argorak 12y ago

Probably a better source is this: http://www.france24.com/en/20140521-french-trains-wide-old-stations-sncf-order/ http://www.france24.com/en/20140521-french-trains-wide-old-s... a) This only applies to very old platforms, build by standards over 50 years ago. b) If the trains were ordered by the older standards, i can imagine an issue that newer platforms would need to be widened (modern trains try to provide gapless entry). So, all in all, the problem was found late (unfortunate), but the real problem is: platforms following different standards which should probably be unified anyways.

icefox 12y ago
Sounds like a long term win anyway, now all future trains can be wider.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

makmanalp 12y ago

I read some speculation on a reddit thread that this was no accident but a backhanded way of forcing modernization: Enough money and effort goes into supporting old trains and train stations in terms of switching trains, personnel, repairs, little bridges to fit smaller trains into wide stations etc that the difference between that and going ahead with the modernization wouldn't be that big. But if there were political objections to such a renovation project from some unknown group, this would be a good way to force their hand.

bloodmoney 12y ago

Well fuck me runnin

dang 12y ago

Url changed from http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27502184 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27502184.

kolev 12y ago

Poor journalism across the board! None of the articles mentions any specifics. How much wider?!

informatimago 12y ago
In any case it is rather insignificant, on the order of the decimeter!