9 ms·

Stealth Infrastructure

132 points by hxrts 12y ago

dm2 12y ago
One of your images is 10 MB, it probably doesn't need to be that large while in the middle of an article, maybe a link to the full-size version instead?
- hxrts 12y ago
  scaled it down, apologies.
hxrts 12y ago
You can also find an interview with Julian Oliver here: http://vvvnt.com/media/julian-oliver http://vvvnt.com/media/julian-oliver
knowaveragejoe 12y ago
I've always been fascinated by this. Apologies if if it is linked somewhere in the article that I missed, but where are the forums where radio enthusiasts share hidden towers they've found?
- aaronem 12y ago
  Not quite what you're looking for, but there is a "Stealth Infrastructure Catalogue" linked after the article, which might serve you as a place to start.
  - knowaveragejoe 12y ago
    I took a look there(after winding my way through Bumping Borders), it appears to be a PDF containing a nicely formatted list of sightings from various countries. I was hoping for the "busy forums" mentioned in the article, but this is still very interesting. Thanks.
    - hxrts 12y ago
      this was his favorite http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=5df351c0-98ea-4b8c-9a84-844f67beb552&wst=9&kw=cell%20towers&st=2 http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=5df351c0...
- hxrts 12y ago
  Just asked the author, will post if I find out.
irsneg 12y ago
Blocked from Russia :/.
- hxrts 12y ago
  I'll look into this. In the meantime, we did co-publish this essay with Rhizome.org. You can find their version here (same text). http://rhizome.org/editorial/2014/may/20/stealth-infrastructure/ http://rhizome.org/editorial/2014/may/20/stealth-infrastruct...
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
tehwebguy 12y ago
That was a great read! So, was it a MITM BTS?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
lstamour 12y ago
I have in fact noticed an impossibly strong AT&T signal at the rainbow bridge. It extends even on the Canadian side. Makes it near impossible to connect easily back to a Canadian carrier like Rogers or Telus. It always seemed a bit strange to me, why US carriers blanketed a tourist area and Canadian ones hadn't.
- Aloha 12y ago
  Often the US sites are actually right on the border - I know where several carriers are sited at the Blaine crossing, and both are within a couple block thereof.
jessaustin 12y ago
Strangely enough, despite all the /stuff/ of cellular infrastructure, on roofs and poles in and around cities, the prevailing idea was that mobile phones communicated via satellite and that all these towers were something to do with TV. I was conscious back then, and I don't recall this particular misunderstanding. Soon after we wondered "what are those things that are mounted like microwave repeaters but obviously are not microwave repeaters?" someone had figured out they were cell antennas. This was before anyone I knew (except my Uncle Glen) had cell phones. Hmmm, maybe this misunderstanding was a Kiwi thing.
- peterwwillis 12y ago
  Louis C.K. thinks phones communicate with satellites in space. http://gizmodo.com/5658560/louis-ck-the-shittiest-cell-phone-in-the-world-is-a-miracle http://gizmodo.com/5658560/louis-ck-the-shittiest-cell-phone... "Give it a second, could ya? It's going to space! Could you give it a second to get back from space?"
  - mindslight 12y ago
    Even more common are people who think GPS involves satellites tracking the location of their phone.
  - mnutt 12y ago
    I assumed that was a tweak of his similar joke about in-flight wifi. And since many in-flight wifi systems use a combination of air-to-ground and satellite, it is going to space and back in a roundabout way.
  - dsl 12y ago
    The joke is funnier this way. Technical accuracy be damned. That is what we pay comedians for.
  - knowaveragejoe 12y ago
    Even if incorrect, his point stands.
jauer 12y ago
It is very common in the US for government entities to build towers (for water storage or to fill a gap in emergency services 2-way radio coverage) and then lease space to carriers to offset the cost and reduce the number of towers in a area. I'd assume economics before spies if I saw a cell sector on a police tower.
- peterwwillis 12y ago
  And honestly, if they want your cell data they can get it from Room 641A a lot easier than popping up government cell towers all over the nation. On the border, though, it makes more sense to surveil traffic which might not originate from within the US.
- bnchdrff 12y ago
  Local law enforcement organizations do buy cell interception technology, regularly: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/09/meet-the-machines-that-steal-your-phones-data/2/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/09/meet-the-machines... Seeing as companies like Harris build equipment for both running and spying on cell networks, it may make sense for them to offer a tower-mounted system...
wyager 12y ago
I used to work in one of the taller buildings in a city. At the top of the building, there was a bunch of cell infrastructure. We were installing some radio equipment in the radio room (the same place AT&T and the others had their stuff), and I noticed two identical locked server boxes. They were very heavy-duty compared to the server cabinets I'm used to. One was marked "FBI" and the other was marked "USMS/DEA" (or something like that). I couldn't really tell without going through a bunch of ceiling-mounted wires, but I'm pretty sure these were connected to some of the civilian cell infrastructure. There wasn't much else to connect to up there.
eggnog 12y ago
Cellular coverage for rural NZ is quite a competitive scene. Did you check your facts on those "Family farms"?

132 points by hxrts 12y ago

dm2 12y ago

One of your images is 10 MB, it probably doesn't need to be that large while in the middle of an article, maybe a link to the full-size version instead?

hxrts 12y ago
scaled it down, apologies.

hxrts 12y ago

You can also find an interview with Julian Oliver here: http://vvvnt.com/media/julian-oliver http://vvvnt.com/media/julian-oliver

knowaveragejoe 12y ago

I've always been fascinated by this. Apologies if if it is linked somewhere in the article that I missed, but where are the forums where radio enthusiasts share hidden towers they've found?

aaronem 12y ago
Not quite what you're looking for, but there is a "Stealth Infrastructure Catalogue" linked after the article, which might serve you as a place to start.
- knowaveragejoe 12y ago
  I took a look there(after winding my way through Bumping Borders), it appears to be a PDF containing a nicely formatted list of sightings from various countries. I was hoping for the "busy forums" mentioned in the article, but this is still very interesting. Thanks.
  - hxrts 12y ago
    this was his favorite http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=5df351c0-98ea-4b8c-9a84-844f67beb552&wst=9&kw=cell%20towers&st=2 http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=5df351c0...
hxrts 12y ago
Just asked the author, will post if I find out.

irsneg 12y ago

Blocked from Russia :/.

hxrts 12y ago
I'll look into this. In the meantime, we did co-publish this essay with Rhizome.org. You can find their version here (same text). http://rhizome.org/editorial/2014/may/20/stealth-infrastructure/ http://rhizome.org/editorial/2014/may/20/stealth-infrastruct...

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

tehwebguy 12y ago

That was a great read! So, was it a MITM BTS?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

lstamour 12y ago

I have in fact noticed an impossibly strong AT&T signal at the rainbow bridge. It extends even on the Canadian side. Makes it near impossible to connect easily back to a Canadian carrier like Rogers or Telus. It always seemed a bit strange to me, why US carriers blanketed a tourist area and Canadian ones hadn't.

Aloha 12y ago
Often the US sites are actually right on the border - I know where several carriers are sited at the Blaine crossing, and both are within a couple block thereof.

jessaustin 12y ago

Strangely enough, despite all the /stuff/ of cellular infrastructure, on roofs and poles in and around cities, the prevailing idea was that mobile phones communicated via satellite and that all these towers were something to do with TV. I was conscious back then, and I don't recall this particular misunderstanding. Soon after we wondered "what are those things that are mounted like microwave repeaters but obviously are not microwave repeaters?" someone had figured out they were cell antennas. This was before anyone I knew (except my Uncle Glen) had cell phones. Hmmm, maybe this misunderstanding was a Kiwi thing.

peterwwillis 12y ago
Louis C.K. thinks phones communicate with satellites in space. http://gizmodo.com/5658560/louis-ck-the-shittiest-cell-phone-in-the-world-is-a-miracle http://gizmodo.com/5658560/louis-ck-the-shittiest-cell-phone... "Give it a second, could ya? It's going to space! Could you give it a second to get back from space?"
- mindslight 12y ago
  Even more common are people who think GPS involves satellites tracking the location of their phone.
- mnutt 12y ago
  I assumed that was a tweak of his similar joke about in-flight wifi. And since many in-flight wifi systems use a combination of air-to-ground and satellite, it is going to space and back in a roundabout way.
- dsl 12y ago
  The joke is funnier this way. Technical accuracy be damned. That is what we pay comedians for.
- knowaveragejoe 12y ago
  Even if incorrect, his point stands.

jauer 12y ago

It is very common in the US for government entities to build towers (for water storage or to fill a gap in emergency services 2-way radio coverage) and then lease space to carriers to offset the cost and reduce the number of towers in a area. I'd assume economics before spies if I saw a cell sector on a police tower.

peterwwillis 12y ago
And honestly, if they want your cell data they can get it from Room 641A a lot easier than popping up government cell towers all over the nation. On the border, though, it makes more sense to surveil traffic which might not originate from within the US.
bnchdrff 12y ago
Local law enforcement organizations do buy cell interception technology, regularly: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/09/meet-the-machines-that-steal-your-phones-data/2/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/09/meet-the-machines... Seeing as companies like Harris build equipment for both running and spying on cell networks, it may make sense for them to offer a tower-mounted system...

wyager 12y ago

I used to work in one of the taller buildings in a city. At the top of the building, there was a bunch of cell infrastructure. We were installing some radio equipment in the radio room (the same place AT&T and the others had their stuff), and I noticed two identical locked server boxes. They were very heavy-duty compared to the server cabinets I'm used to. One was marked "FBI" and the other was marked "USMS/DEA" (or something like that). I couldn't really tell without going through a bunch of ceiling-mounted wires, but I'm pretty sure these were connected to some of the civilian cell infrastructure. There wasn't much else to connect to up there.

eggnog 12y ago

Cellular coverage for rural NZ is quite a competitive scene. Did you check your facts on those "Family farms"?