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> We tell ourselves it isn't a choice but for many of us it is. Most of us could earn enough money to support our family comfortably in a relatively regular 9 -

> We tell ourselves it isn't a choice but for many of us it is. Most of us could earn enough money to support our family comfortably in a relatively regular 9 - 5 job. We might not be personally as satisfied and we might not be as financially well off, but we can choose one possible version of our life over another. I'm currently in the 9-5 job and maybe I'm just a whiner, but I feel the same as this guy. I hate the commute through rush hour traffic that I am required by the time window to make. I hate that once I get to the office I sit in a 8'x8' cube, with two 8'x4' desks taking up 50% of the space. I hate that I've just been reassigned to a new cube, same size, same desks, but now with a structural 4x4 pillar taking up another 25% and my back to the "door". I hate that I spend all day patching the same kinds of holes again and again without the authority to fix the root problems. I hate that I have no real ability to influence the direction of my organization. Without agency it become very difficult to keep caring about the product. I hate that nobody else cares either. I work purely to support my family. That is the only reason. I used to love writing software, and I still do, but I hate my job. I hate that I feel like everything that makes me who I am is being slowly ground away into nothing. I get home with time for the kids but I have nothing left. My mental tank is completely empty. I almost can't get up in the mornings, I don't want to get up. If it wasn't for my wife and kids I wouldn't get up. Somehow this wonderful, exciting process of solving problems and finding solutions to people's needs has turned into torture. I'm on a sinking ship and am too burdened with responsibility to jump off. So I'm frantically trying in my spare time to build a raft so I can find my own island. I feel like I'm racing against time. I have to finish the raft before I have a mental break and land my family on welfare and me on a psychologist's couch. There are great things about my job, those benefits that you mention: 40 hours a week (well, 50 including the commute), an above-average salary (my wife can spend her quality time teaching and raising our kids), job security (we've been planning to end-of-life the product for longer than I've been here), a reasonable boss (who is just as powerless to change things as I am). I guess I'm not really disagreeing with you, just sharing an admittedly depressed view from the other side. We do have a choice, and right now my choice is to pull late nights after the kids go to bed. I'm scrambling to create my own software that I can sell so I don't have to go to this 9-5 which you advocate for OP.

Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
I don't think you're a whiner - my position is not that dissimilar. Both sides of the decision likely involve compromise. The idea that being a more involved parent is without downside is sadly not true for most people. The only thing I would say is that there are jobs that allow a work life balance which aren't totally soul destroying - something between your current hell and the 12 hour a day start up culture. Maybe it's time to start looking for something which may not be your perfect job, but might be a little better.
sliverstorm 12y ago
There is a spectra of 9-5 jobs. Some suck a lot, some suck a lot less. You don't have to pick between only the job you have right now or startups; there are more choices than that. Essentially what I am saying is, it might be time for you to look for a different 9-5 job.
japhyr 12y ago
Having a job you hate is not beneficial to you or your family in the long run, other than keeping food on the table. You don't want to look around the day your kids leave the house and feel like you have lost yourself completely, and no one in your family wants to see that either. Have you started to look for other work? It's not easy to throw a job search on top of everything else on your plate, but if it gives you some of your own life back, it could be well worthwhile. I have a 3-year-old son, and it's been an interesting ride. This year was supposed to be more relaxing because we got into a better living situation, but then my wife was getting bored staying at home every day. So she got a really interesting job, but the job ended up being way more involved than either of us expected. So our schedules are pretty hectic, but it's worth it to see her mentally stimulated and avoiding the professional detachment that can come from stay-at-home-parenting. I have some really interesting personal projects going, which have been affected by family stuff. I have responded by stretching out the timeframe on these projects. That is better than giving up these projects entirely, and it is way better than ignoring my family in order to finish the projects. If you limit yourself to one or two kids, your kids will be grown up and out of the house in no time, and you'll never get that time back with them. "Out of the house" doesn't mean 18 and living somewhere else, it can mean 6 and in school most of the day, or 12 and in all kinds of activities all the time. Those early years are prime family time; I hope everyone is able to let themselves enjoy that period of life.

Tyrannosaurs 12y ago

I don't think you're a whiner - my position is not that dissimilar. Both sides of the decision likely involve compromise. The idea that being a more involved parent is without downside is sadly not true for most people. The only thing I would say is that there are jobs that allow a work life balance which aren't totally soul destroying - something between your current hell and the 12 hour a day start up culture. Maybe it's time to start looking for something which may not be your perfect job, but might be a little better.

sliverstorm 12y ago

There is a spectra of 9-5 jobs. Some suck a lot, some suck a lot less. You don't have to pick between only the job you have right now or startups; there are more choices than that. Essentially what I am saying is, it might be time for you to look for a different 9-5 job.

japhyr 12y ago

Having a job you hate is not beneficial to you or your family in the long run, other than keeping food on the table. You don't want to look around the day your kids leave the house and feel like you have lost yourself completely, and no one in your family wants to see that either. Have you started to look for other work? It's not easy to throw a job search on top of everything else on your plate, but if it gives you some of your own life back, it could be well worthwhile. I have a 3-year-old son, and it's been an interesting ride. This year was supposed to be more relaxing because we got into a better living situation, but then my wife was getting bored staying at home every day. So she got a really interesting job, but the job ended up being way more involved than either of us expected. So our schedules are pretty hectic, but it's worth it to see her mentally stimulated and avoiding the professional detachment that can come from stay-at-home-parenting. I have some really interesting personal projects going, which have been affected by family stuff. I have responded by stretching out the timeframe on these projects. That is better than giving up these projects entirely, and it is way better than ignoring my family in order to finish the projects. If you limit yourself to one or two kids, your kids will be grown up and out of the house in no time, and you'll never get that time back with them. "Out of the house" doesn't mean 18 and living somewhere else, it can mean 6 and in school most of the day, or 12 and in all kinds of activities all the time. Those early years are prime family time; I hope everyone is able to let themselves enjoy that period of life.