4 ms·

I had a few run-ins with NN/antiorp/m9ndfukc back in the day. To be honest I think that "artsy fartsy" is a meaningless cliché. It sounds like "artists are s

I had a few run-ins with NN/antiorp/m9ndfukc back in the day. To be honest I think that "artsy fartsy" is a meaningless cliché. It sounds like "artists are stupid because they take art seriously" However - NN was interesting because as well as being absolutely infuriating she was very knowledgeable about the technology (DSP/CSound type stuff), was capable of being very poetic and profound upon occasion and genuinely made you think, often very deeply. I know from my interactions with the Hafler Trio (Andrew Mackenzie had been hinted at as having involvement in the NN project - although that does not seem to have been the case.) that Mackenzie achieves a similar thing with his online interaction style. By being provoked, questioned and subverted you can be led to new thinking and ways of seeing things which are often hard won but rewarding. Like NN it does have the side effect of making people not open to it very angry indeed.

yummyfajitas 17y ago
I think a better description of "artsy fartsy" is "people who take their social position as an artist seriously."
aw3c2 17y ago
Ah, I guess I used "artsy fartsy" in a wrong way. No native english speaker here. Gheorghe Dan is artistic director and researcher for 0f0003, a phylotically entwined polymorphic web of covalent potentialities, a multi-cultural/scientific laboratory, promulgating generative storytelling, evolutionary design, autopoetic systems and hybrid reality multiverses. That just sounded so very "I am an artist and use mysterious words because I am so much ~better than you".
- unalone 17y ago
  The tricky thing here is that some artists do deliberately use big words because they think they're better, but some honestly don't realize how pretentious it sounds to use language like that. I've got a friend who sounds like an old Russian author when she speaks/writes, because those are the words she grew up with. Not everybody spends time learning how to be easily digestible.
  - sunir 17y ago
    Poor communication only becomes enculturated when it has some larger economic purpose. In the art world, it's all a game to win funding. This type of art is not aimed at the general audience, but--if you bear with what seems like weird conspiratorial mumbo jumbo--about making a certain class of elites feel and appear smarter when dealing with their peers. The elites are the public funding boards and the private patrons. For the public funders, they need to defend their grants, so they need suitable language from the artist that makes the art seem incredibly important, intelligent, etc. so they can defend their decisions. For the private funder, it's the thrill of showing off. It's the same reason you hang beautiful pictures on your wall. Sure it's for your own pleasure, but it's also for the pleasure of seeing others appreciate your taste. One way to accomplish both goals is to be inscrutable. That confuses and intimidates people, and can make them afraid to challenge you. To give you another context where poor communication is used to serve an economic end, you'll find the same tactic in sales. If you ever wondered why an enterprise software company's website doesn't make any sense, it's to confuse you enough to pick up the phone and call a salesperson who can then relationship sell you.
    - unalone 17y ago
      As I said: Half the time I agree with you, and it's pretense for the sake of pretense. The rest of the time - more often, in fact, in my age group - it's people who just know big words and use them like it's part of their vocabulary. Hell, I'm guilty of the same thing, to a lesser degree. I speak the way I type, occasional digressions into grander vocabulary and all, and I'm frequently asked why I use such large words. Personally, I don't think words like "digression", "voluptuous" (a personal favorite), and "grandiose" are that difficult, but other people disagree, and I've been called an artsy-fart more than once. It's the same reason you hang beautiful pictures on your wall. Sure it's for your own pleasure, but it's also for the pleasure of seeing others appreciate your taste. I'm going to have to disagree and defend the honest artist here. As a purveyor of beautiful things myself, I can say that I don't care about other people's opinions of my taste. However, I still do seek out said beautiful things, entirely for myself. I spent this weekend buying diningware and silverware, and if I hadn't been looking for stuff I really connected with I could have left the store a hundred dollars richer. As it is, I care much more about having an emotive connection with the things I own and see and use than I do about saving money, which I know sounds like bullshit but is a philosophy I still agree with.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  Is that text attributed to Gheorghe Dan ? Or was it by someone writing about him ?
- dkarl 17y ago
  I'm a native speaker, and I agree with your usage. As I have heard it used, "artsy-fartsy" means "self-consciously exhibiting the accoutrements and mannerisms of artists (or art lovers) in order to enjoy the respect accorded to artists (or art lovers), without producing anything of merit or interest (or having any taste)." It also has a faint connotation of being a step behind society, imitating the stuffy pretensions of the last (and now hopelessly conservative) generation of critics, which makes it feel slightly imperfect for this context, but only slightly. If one artist called another artist "artsy fartsy," it would mean about the same thing as "poseur." But usually it's applied by a non-artist to someone who has artistic pretensions: "Why are you being such a arrogant ass when you have done nothing to justify it?" People tolerate all kinds of pathological behavior from great artists, and they resent it when a crappy or mediocre artist tries to take the same liberties.
billswift 17y ago
"Artsy-fartsy" people think arts are important, the same way "normal" people think sports are important, and geeks think computers are important. Of course, only the geeks are right.

yummyfajitas 17y ago

I think a better description of "artsy fartsy" is "people who take their social position as an artist seriously."

aw3c2 17y ago

Ah, I guess I used "artsy fartsy" in a wrong way. No native english speaker here. Gheorghe Dan is artistic director and researcher for 0f0003, a phylotically entwined polymorphic web of covalent potentialities, a multi-cultural/scientific laboratory, promulgating generative storytelling, evolutionary design, autopoetic systems and hybrid reality multiverses. That just sounded so very "I am an artist and use mysterious words because I am so much ~better than you".

unalone 17y ago
The tricky thing here is that some artists do deliberately use big words because they think they're better, but some honestly don't realize how pretentious it sounds to use language like that. I've got a friend who sounds like an old Russian author when she speaks/writes, because those are the words she grew up with. Not everybody spends time learning how to be easily digestible.
- sunir 17y ago
  Poor communication only becomes enculturated when it has some larger economic purpose. In the art world, it's all a game to win funding. This type of art is not aimed at the general audience, but--if you bear with what seems like weird conspiratorial mumbo jumbo--about making a certain class of elites feel and appear smarter when dealing with their peers. The elites are the public funding boards and the private patrons. For the public funders, they need to defend their grants, so they need suitable language from the artist that makes the art seem incredibly important, intelligent, etc. so they can defend their decisions. For the private funder, it's the thrill of showing off. It's the same reason you hang beautiful pictures on your wall. Sure it's for your own pleasure, but it's also for the pleasure of seeing others appreciate your taste. One way to accomplish both goals is to be inscrutable. That confuses and intimidates people, and can make them afraid to challenge you. To give you another context where poor communication is used to serve an economic end, you'll find the same tactic in sales. If you ever wondered why an enterprise software company's website doesn't make any sense, it's to confuse you enough to pick up the phone and call a salesperson who can then relationship sell you.
  - unalone 17y ago
    As I said: Half the time I agree with you, and it's pretense for the sake of pretense. The rest of the time - more often, in fact, in my age group - it's people who just know big words and use them like it's part of their vocabulary. Hell, I'm guilty of the same thing, to a lesser degree. I speak the way I type, occasional digressions into grander vocabulary and all, and I'm frequently asked why I use such large words. Personally, I don't think words like "digression", "voluptuous" (a personal favorite), and "grandiose" are that difficult, but other people disagree, and I've been called an artsy-fart more than once. It's the same reason you hang beautiful pictures on your wall. Sure it's for your own pleasure, but it's also for the pleasure of seeing others appreciate your taste. I'm going to have to disagree and defend the honest artist here. As a purveyor of beautiful things myself, I can say that I don't care about other people's opinions of my taste. However, I still do seek out said beautiful things, entirely for myself. I spent this weekend buying diningware and silverware, and if I hadn't been looking for stuff I really connected with I could have left the store a hundred dollars richer. As it is, I care much more about having an emotive connection with the things I own and see and use than I do about saving money, which I know sounds like bullshit but is a philosophy I still agree with.
jacquesm 17y ago
Is that text attributed to Gheorghe Dan ? Or was it by someone writing about him ?
dkarl 17y ago
I'm a native speaker, and I agree with your usage. As I have heard it used, "artsy-fartsy" means "self-consciously exhibiting the accoutrements and mannerisms of artists (or art lovers) in order to enjoy the respect accorded to artists (or art lovers), without producing anything of merit or interest (or having any taste)." It also has a faint connotation of being a step behind society, imitating the stuffy pretensions of the last (and now hopelessly conservative) generation of critics, which makes it feel slightly imperfect for this context, but only slightly. If one artist called another artist "artsy fartsy," it would mean about the same thing as "poseur." But usually it's applied by a non-artist to someone who has artistic pretensions: "Why are you being such a arrogant ass when you have done nothing to justify it?" People tolerate all kinds of pathological behavior from great artists, and they resent it when a crappy or mediocre artist tries to take the same liberties.

billswift 17y ago

"Artsy-fartsy" people think arts are important, the same way "normal" people think sports are important, and geeks think computers are important. Of course, only the geeks are right.