6 ms·

They've kind of killed this whole angle of "Surface is for getting work done" after they hedged by releasing Office on iPad.

by IBM 12y ago

mkr-hn 12y ago
There's a long list of tasks not covered by Office that you still can't do all that well on an iPad or Android device.
- sorahn 12y ago
  And the surface is better?
  - mkr-hn 12y ago
    It runs almost everything you need in a 3D, music, photography, writing, or digital art workflow.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    Yes, because you can switch to a full desktop mode without being constrained to a jailed mode as in iOS and Android. For example, you cannot do programming on the go, without being connected to a server that handles your development tasks.
    - Roboprog 12y ago
      I do programming on my android tablet. There are several IDEs, as well as the CLI/vim kit I use. The screen is a little bit small, but the Nexus 7 is a pretty capable machine: 4 core, plenty of RAM, lots of (small) pixels and solid state secondary storage. On my (employer) corporate Win7 laptop, the virus checker sometimes lights up the hard drive continuously, making the IDE almost unusable on it. My tablet feels pretty damn snappy.
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        None of the available environments is able to produce APKs that use the whole system without some server help.
    - gress 12y ago
      But is it better than a MacBook Air?
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        How do you turn a MacBook Air into a tablet?
        gress 12y ago
        The whole point people are making is that tablets aren't good for work, which is why the surface is so great. So the surface has to be better than the MacBook Air for work, or better than an iPad as a tablet. Otherwise it's just a compromise that is worse at both. [edit: the downvotes are pretty indicative of the nature of this thread given that all I've done is ask valid questions to which I don't know the answer]
        pjmlp 12y ago
        So to enlighten you. With a Surface, I can go full developer mode in the desktop, while making use of, if you prefer, the old style applications. I can detach the keyboard, switch the Metro (Modern) mode and make use of the tablet as a digital notebook thanks to pen input and handwriting recognition. Finally, I can go put the pen aside and just use touch input. And the ability to have a docking station made specifically for the Surface is the cherry on the top of the cake. With a Mac Book Air, I am stuck on the classical desktop mode.
        gress 12y ago
        You haven't enlightened me at all. I know that the surface can do a lot of things. The question is - does it do any of those things better than the competition. When in "classical desktop mode" it needs to be better than the MacBook Air, otherwise for most work it will be a worse experience regardless of whether it could at any time transform into a tablet.
JohnTHaller 12y ago
Not really. The office apps for tablets are really more for a quick review and maybe a minor change, but they're nowhere near a full desktop office suite. The Surface and laptops have a real full desktop office suite (Microsoft Office, LibreOffice, etc) and can do everything you need to.
mhurron 12y ago
Office isn't the only thing people use to 'get work done.' One of the reasons I'm planning to get a Surface Pro instead of a Android tablet or a iPad is it is a full, real windows OS on an intel processor. I can install and run ALL my existing Windows applications on it. For me it's more of a light laptop then a limited tablet device.
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  And then there's the ARM version, which manages to not have the single best feature of Windows: the outstanding backwards compatibility. A very weird decision. Maybe they'll kill it with the 3rd gen.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
    - ben336 12y ago
      The problem is it WASN'T $300 cheaper. It was initially priced at iPad levels. It got heavily discounted for a while, but the initial run was positioned as an iPad competitor, not a low end disruptor. Which was crazy given the lack of apps to start.
  - danudey 12y ago
    In a way, the ARM version makes sense; if you're going to buy a bunch of new apps anyway (iPad or Windows RT), why not get the Windows you're used to? I mean, if you're going to buy new apps all over again… The problem with this logic is that if I'm going to buy new apps all over again, why wouldn't I buy an iPad, which has more apps and an easier interface than Windows RT, which is essentially nothing like the Windows I'm used to. If I have to re-learn a new system, why wouldn't I pick the one that everyone else uses and knows than the new one that no one else really cares about or understands (and which everyone hated when it came out). The real key now is Universal apps; if you can build one app that works on Windows 8, Windows RT, and Windows Pro (and maybe the XBone in some cases), then we're going to see the potential for a huge increase in apps as people start realizing they can hit all three markets with 'one' build (and three UIs).
danudey 12y ago
I think that really speaks to Microsoft's new direction though. It's funny, because it used to be that everything Microsoft did was in furtherance of the 'Windows über alles' philosophy, that Microsoft can only win if everyone else loses. Within that philosophy, though, there was no direction. You drank the kool-aid, and then your team just did whatever; see the famous example of the Office manager hating the idea of tablet PCs and refusing to support them in Office. Everyone was working towards the same goal (the Windows hegemony) but doing so in a disorganized fashion. Now, it seems like Microsoft's new direction is 'stay relevant and make good things'; everyone is working in the same fashion (make new, relevant technology), but there's a lack of coherence. Microsoft making such a fantastic iPad app as Office for iPad is certainly weakens Office on Windows, Surface, Windows 8 RT, etc., but it also means that Microsoft will still be relevant even if any one of those fails. Likewise, it makes no sense for them to make a version of Office for Mac and (intentionally) cripple its compatibility to hurt the Mac's image. Now that users aren't (and can't be) forced to use Office on Windows, the Office team needs to keep their product relevant and their revenues flowing; that means covering as many platforms as possible, and ensuring proper interoperability between them. Basically, the Office team's job now is to ensure that Office survives, not to ensure that Windows 8 or the Surface survive.
- BugBrother 12y ago
  Well, the iPad owns the tablet app world, Microsoft didn't have much choice. When [/if] Office is released for many of the differing O/S and hardware versions of Android, I'll agree your description have a point. Edit: Close enough, dragonwriter. I yield the point. (I should have known about this. Also, why is there such a lack of optimized pad sized apps for Android? The phone ones I've seen weren't exactly using the screen area well.)
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > When [/if] Office is released for many of the differing O/S and hardware versions of Android, I'll agree your description have a point. There's a phone version for Android 4.0+, but not yet a tablet version.
nivla 12y ago
From a business perspective I agree with you, that was huge leverage which could have boosted the sales of Surface considerably. However, from a consumer point of view, nahh that falls into the grey area of a typical monopolistic behavior. So I am glad they didn't. I am all for that gives people choices, regardless of the brand, OS or price.

They've kind of killed this whole angle of "Surface is for getting work done" after they hedged by releasing Office on iPad.

by IBM 12y ago

They've kind of killed this whole angle of "Surface is for getting work done" after they hedged by releasing Office on iPad.

mkr-hn 12y ago

There's a long list of tasks not covered by Office that you still can't do all that well on an iPad or Android device.

sorahn 12y ago
And the surface is better?
- mkr-hn 12y ago
  It runs almost everything you need in a 3D, music, photography, writing, or digital art workflow.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  Yes, because you can switch to a full desktop mode without being constrained to a jailed mode as in iOS and Android. For example, you cannot do programming on the go, without being connected to a server that handles your development tasks.
  - Roboprog 12y ago
    I do programming on my android tablet. There are several IDEs, as well as the CLI/vim kit I use. The screen is a little bit small, but the Nexus 7 is a pretty capable machine: 4 core, plenty of RAM, lots of (small) pixels and solid state secondary storage. On my (employer) corporate Win7 laptop, the virus checker sometimes lights up the hard drive continuously, making the IDE almost unusable on it. My tablet feels pretty damn snappy.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      None of the available environments is able to produce APKs that use the whole system without some server help.
  - gress 12y ago
    But is it better than a MacBook Air?
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      How do you turn a MacBook Air into a tablet?
      - gress 12y ago
        The whole point people are making is that tablets aren't good for work, which is why the surface is so great. So the surface has to be better than the MacBook Air for work, or better than an iPad as a tablet. Otherwise it's just a compromise that is worse at both. [edit: the downvotes are pretty indicative of the nature of this thread given that all I've done is ask valid questions to which I don't know the answer]
        pjmlp 12y ago
        So to enlighten you. With a Surface, I can go full developer mode in the desktop, while making use of, if you prefer, the old style applications. I can detach the keyboard, switch the Metro (Modern) mode and make use of the tablet as a digital notebook thanks to pen input and handwriting recognition. Finally, I can go put the pen aside and just use touch input. And the ability to have a docking station made specifically for the Surface is the cherry on the top of the cake. With a Mac Book Air, I am stuck on the classical desktop mode.
        gress 12y ago
        You haven't enlightened me at all. I know that the surface can do a lot of things. The question is - does it do any of those things better than the competition. When in "classical desktop mode" it needs to be better than the MacBook Air, otherwise for most work it will be a worse experience regardless of whether it could at any time transform into a tablet.

JohnTHaller 12y ago

Not really. The office apps for tablets are really more for a quick review and maybe a minor change, but they're nowhere near a full desktop office suite. The Surface and laptops have a real full desktop office suite (Microsoft Office, LibreOffice, etc) and can do everything you need to.

mhurron 12y ago

Office isn't the only thing people use to 'get work done.' One of the reasons I'm planning to get a Surface Pro instead of a Android tablet or a iPad is it is a full, real windows OS on an intel processor. I can install and run ALL my existing Windows applications on it. For me it's more of a light laptop then a limited tablet device.

robotresearcher 12y ago
And then there's the ARM version, which manages to not have the single best feature of Windows: the outstanding backwards compatibility. A very weird decision. Maybe they'll kill it with the 3rd gen.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - ben336 12y ago
    The problem is it WASN'T $300 cheaper. It was initially priced at iPad levels. It got heavily discounted for a while, but the initial run was positioned as an iPad competitor, not a low end disruptor. Which was crazy given the lack of apps to start.
- danudey 12y ago
  In a way, the ARM version makes sense; if you're going to buy a bunch of new apps anyway (iPad or Windows RT), why not get the Windows you're used to? I mean, if you're going to buy new apps all over again… The problem with this logic is that if I'm going to buy new apps all over again, why wouldn't I buy an iPad, which has more apps and an easier interface than Windows RT, which is essentially nothing like the Windows I'm used to. If I have to re-learn a new system, why wouldn't I pick the one that everyone else uses and knows than the new one that no one else really cares about or understands (and which everyone hated when it came out). The real key now is Universal apps; if you can build one app that works on Windows 8, Windows RT, and Windows Pro (and maybe the XBone in some cases), then we're going to see the potential for a huge increase in apps as people start realizing they can hit all three markets with 'one' build (and three UIs).

danudey 12y ago

I think that really speaks to Microsoft's new direction though. It's funny, because it used to be that everything Microsoft did was in furtherance of the 'Windows über alles' philosophy, that Microsoft can only win if everyone else loses. Within that philosophy, though, there was no direction. You drank the kool-aid, and then your team just did whatever; see the famous example of the Office manager hating the idea of tablet PCs and refusing to support them in Office. Everyone was working towards the same goal (the Windows hegemony) but doing so in a disorganized fashion. Now, it seems like Microsoft's new direction is 'stay relevant and make good things'; everyone is working in the same fashion (make new, relevant technology), but there's a lack of coherence. Microsoft making such a fantastic iPad app as Office for iPad is certainly weakens Office on Windows, Surface, Windows 8 RT, etc., but it also means that Microsoft will still be relevant even if any one of those fails. Likewise, it makes no sense for them to make a version of Office for Mac and (intentionally) cripple its compatibility to hurt the Mac's image. Now that users aren't (and can't be) forced to use Office on Windows, the Office team needs to keep their product relevant and their revenues flowing; that means covering as many platforms as possible, and ensuring proper interoperability between them. Basically, the Office team's job now is to ensure that Office survives, not to ensure that Windows 8 or the Surface survive.

BugBrother 12y ago
Well, the iPad owns the tablet app world, Microsoft didn't have much choice. When [/if] Office is released for many of the differing O/S and hardware versions of Android, I'll agree your description have a point. Edit: Close enough, dragonwriter. I yield the point. (I should have known about this. Also, why is there such a lack of optimized pad sized apps for Android? The phone ones I've seen weren't exactly using the screen area well.)
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > When [/if] Office is released for many of the differing O/S and hardware versions of Android, I'll agree your description have a point. There's a phone version for Android 4.0+, but not yet a tablet version.

nivla 12y ago

From a business perspective I agree with you, that was huge leverage which could have boosted the sales of Surface considerably. However, from a consumer point of view, nahh that falls into the grey area of a typical monopolistic behavior. So I am glad they didn't. I am all for that gives people choices, regardless of the brand, OS or price.