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China can say whatever they want as a reason for banning, but the fact that they don't believe a US company to provide them with an operating system that even h

China can say whatever they want as a reason for banning, but the fact that they don't believe a US company to provide them with an operating system that even has a slight chance to be NSA secure feels quite sensible. I guess in the long run we would see a Linux or *BSD sponsored by Chinese government to be used as an official OS. It's not like they lack talent to do it.

jmnicolas 12y ago
If they fear NSA spying why still use XP ? If you use Windows 8 you're vulnerable to talented crackers and governments. If you still use Win XP you're vulnerable to anybody. Maybe they're just afraid of integration of Azure / Skydrive / whatever the new name is that could possibly create embarrassing sharing mistakes.
- yiedyie 12y ago
  Maybe because they've fixed XP for their security concerns: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/qihoo-360-announces-its-360-safeguard-xp-shield-withstands-13-hours-of-non-stop-attacks-without-a-breach-254115871.html http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/qihoo-360-announces-...
  - unicornporn 12y ago
    Interesting. Can't find any info about in on http://360safe.com/ http://360safe.com/ though...
    - toni 12y ago
      It's part of their "360 Safe Guard"[1] software. But I think it's only available in Chinese. They also have an "enterprise" edition. [1] http://www.360.cn/weishi/index.html http://www.360.cn/weishi/index.html
      - unicornporn 12y ago
        Ah, thanks.
  - yiedyie 12y ago
    @unicornporn, Agree, I wanted to use it as a solution and I was not able to find it.
- waps 12y ago
  > If you use Windows 8 you're vulnerable to talented crackers and governments. If you still use Win XP you're vulnerable to anybody. And government is essentially like management. Honesty: 0. Integrity: 0. Sanity: 0. That answers your question.
seren 12y ago
I guess an attempt already exists in the form of Ubuntu Kylin [1], ominously sponsored by the National University of Defense technology [2]. But I have a hard time determining how serious the project is, and how prevalent it is in China. [1] http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/ubuntu-kylin http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/ubuntu-kylin [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Defense_Technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Defense_...
- w1ntermute 12y ago
  Everyone uses Windows in China. Half the sites won't even render correctly unless you use IE.
  - Svip 12y ago
    This is the government we are talking about. They visit websites outside the Great Firewall. So they need a modern browser.
  - crimsonalucard 12y ago
    A major Hong Kong Bank even listed IE as a required browser you needed to use to access your account. Insane.
- sandGorgon 12y ago
  It is quite successful apparently Downloads from the Ubuntu Kylin community sites in China are continuing to gain momentum, with over three million people downloading Ubuntu Kylin in the first 12 months. The initial adoption of Ubuntu Kylin 14.04 LTS, launched in April, has been phenomenal, with over one million additional new downloads. https://insights.ubuntu.com/2014/05/15/huge-downloads-for-ubuntu-kylin-14-04lts-first-oem-partner-announced/ https://insights.ubuntu.com/2014/05/15/huge-downloads-for-ub...
  - ForHackernews 12y ago
    Just for perspective, 3 million users in China is the equivalent of about 700k users in the US. It's not insignificant, but neither is it like every third Chinese person is running Kylin. Heck, even OSX has 20 million or so users in the US[0] [0] http://www.pcworld.com/article/2050510/windows-8-users-now-outnumber-mac-addicts.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2050510/windows-8-users-now-o...
gtirloni 12y ago
Red Flag Linux is dead. Are they going to try it again?
Bill_Dimm 12y ago
They had one called Red Flag Linux, but apparently it shut down recently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux
diabloneo 12y ago
Linux Deepin may be another choice beyond Ubuntu Kylin.
happyscrappy 12y ago
>they don't believe a US company to provide them with an operating system that even has a slight chance to be NSA secure feels quite sensible Or a British company or an Canadian company or an Australian etc. etc.
danielweber 12y ago
How much money has China's government paid Microsoft for OS in the past? (The question I'm really asking: how much piracy did China do in the past, and how likely is that going to just continue as is?)
JPKab 12y ago
The biggest threat to China's IT security isn't Windows (as bad as it is), but rather the rampant software piracy. Anyone who thinks that the NSA, and any other state actor, can't sneak malicious code into software which is distributed in a black market is kidding themselves.
wogong 12y ago
Linux is really not an easy thing for people working in Chinese government.
breitling 12y ago
I would think nation states already work under the assumption that the NSA and other agencies are actively trying to infiltrate their systems. The recent NSA revelations can't be news to them. So why stop using it now I wonder?
chj 12y ago
Same reason USA want Huawei out.

jmnicolas 12y ago

If they fear NSA spying why still use XP ? If you use Windows 8 you're vulnerable to talented crackers and governments. If you still use Win XP you're vulnerable to anybody. Maybe they're just afraid of integration of Azure / Skydrive / whatever the new name is that could possibly create embarrassing sharing mistakes.

yiedyie 12y ago
Maybe because they've fixed XP for their security concerns: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/qihoo-360-announces-its-360-safeguard-xp-shield-withstands-13-hours-of-non-stop-attacks-without-a-breach-254115871.html http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/qihoo-360-announces-...
- unicornporn 12y ago
  Interesting. Can't find any info about in on http://360safe.com/ http://360safe.com/ though...
  - toni 12y ago
    It's part of their "360 Safe Guard"[1] software. But I think it's only available in Chinese. They also have an "enterprise" edition. [1] http://www.360.cn/weishi/index.html http://www.360.cn/weishi/index.html
    - unicornporn 12y ago
      Ah, thanks.
- yiedyie 12y ago
  @unicornporn, Agree, I wanted to use it as a solution and I was not able to find it.
waps 12y ago
> If you use Windows 8 you're vulnerable to talented crackers and governments. If you still use Win XP you're vulnerable to anybody. And government is essentially like management. Honesty: 0. Integrity: 0. Sanity: 0. That answers your question.

seren 12y ago

I guess an attempt already exists in the form of Ubuntu Kylin [1], ominously sponsored by the National University of Defense technology [2]. But I have a hard time determining how serious the project is, and how prevalent it is in China. [1] http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/ubuntu-kylin http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/ubuntu-kylin [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Defense_Technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Defense_...

w1ntermute 12y ago
Everyone uses Windows in China. Half the sites won't even render correctly unless you use IE.
- Svip 12y ago
  This is the government we are talking about. They visit websites outside the Great Firewall. So they need a modern browser.
- crimsonalucard 12y ago
  A major Hong Kong Bank even listed IE as a required browser you needed to use to access your account. Insane.
sandGorgon 12y ago
It is quite successful apparently Downloads from the Ubuntu Kylin community sites in China are continuing to gain momentum, with over three million people downloading Ubuntu Kylin in the first 12 months. The initial adoption of Ubuntu Kylin 14.04 LTS, launched in April, has been phenomenal, with over one million additional new downloads. https://insights.ubuntu.com/2014/05/15/huge-downloads-for-ubuntu-kylin-14-04lts-first-oem-partner-announced/ https://insights.ubuntu.com/2014/05/15/huge-downloads-for-ub...
- ForHackernews 12y ago
  Just for perspective, 3 million users in China is the equivalent of about 700k users in the US. It's not insignificant, but neither is it like every third Chinese person is running Kylin. Heck, even OSX has 20 million or so users in the US[0] [0] http://www.pcworld.com/article/2050510/windows-8-users-now-outnumber-mac-addicts.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2050510/windows-8-users-now-o...

gtirloni 12y ago

Red Flag Linux is dead. Are they going to try it again?

Bill_Dimm 12y ago

They had one called Red Flag Linux, but apparently it shut down recently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux

diabloneo 12y ago

Linux Deepin may be another choice beyond Ubuntu Kylin.

happyscrappy 12y ago

>they don't believe a US company to provide them with an operating system that even has a slight chance to be NSA secure feels quite sensible Or a British company or an Canadian company or an Australian etc. etc.

danielweber 12y ago

How much money has China's government paid Microsoft for OS in the past? (The question I'm really asking: how much piracy did China do in the past, and how likely is that going to just continue as is?)

JPKab 12y ago

The biggest threat to China's IT security isn't Windows (as bad as it is), but rather the rampant software piracy. Anyone who thinks that the NSA, and any other state actor, can't sneak malicious code into software which is distributed in a black market is kidding themselves.

wogong 12y ago

Linux is really not an easy thing for people working in Chinese government.

breitling 12y ago

I would think nation states already work under the assumption that the NSA and other agencies are actively trying to infiltrate their systems. The recent NSA revelations can't be news to them. So why stop using it now I wonder?

chj 12y ago

Same reason USA want Huawei out.