6 ms·

I just commented on HN yesterday on the success of Metafilter's model of charging a gatekeeper fee for posting. Maybe a one time fee is enough to keep spam at b

by mutagen 12y ago

I just commented on HN yesterday on the success of Metafilter's model of charging a gatekeeper fee for posting. Maybe a one time fee is enough to keep spam at bay but not enough to pay moderators. The bigger issue seems to be Google's algorithm changes. I don't think anyone would argue that Metafilter is a low quality site or that they should appear below some of the spammy and generally worthless sites that continue to stay near the top. Relying on ad revenue is difficult, especially when your core audience is the crowd that is typically running ad blockers and search traffic changes at the whim of a search engine.

brandnewlow 12y ago
In the last 5 years we've seen both Quora, StackOverflow launch and gain serious traction and Yelp has consolidated its position as a top destination for local search. AskMeFi likely is seeing the results of going up against massively VC-backed competitors. It's hard to imagine Google's search updates were aimed at prioritizing "worthless sites". Edit: And Reddit & Imgur have exploded. Those have probably had even bigger impacts.
- dublinben 12y ago
  I've visited MetaFilter on an off for many years, and I've never heard of AskMeFi before today. I didn't even know they had a section that was similar to Quora or SO. I've only ever seen it as a link aggregation community.
  - davis 12y ago
    That's strange because I feel that AskMeFi is what keeps me going back and visiting.
- mutagen 12y ago
  That's very true. I'm thinking more of the about.com type of results (which would also qualify for your description of a well funded competitor). Perhaps I was too disparaging of Google's changes, overall they're increased search quality. I just find it unfortunate when sites like Metafilter get downranked as collateral damage.
  - brandnewlow 12y ago
    There's certainly a lot of crappy sites out there! I think they probably got hit just as hard. VCs wouldn't be pumping money into the Rap Genius' of the world if they weren't seeing big wins there. Eventually a site like MeFi gets crowded out.
cheriot 12y ago
I can't help but wonder if reddit's still growing popularity is a contributing factor. reddit found a slightly better way for the community to moderate itself so they've been able to have a higher programmer to moderator ratio.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  It's a different and cheaper way to moderate a community. I don't think that necessarily gets you all the way to better.
- thenmar 12y ago
  What way is that? Reddit's staff are intentionally hands-off and it really shows. In fact, the only successfully moderated subreddit of any significant size I can think of is r/askhistorians.
  - judk 12y ago
    Why does significant size matter? Reddit has thousands of subs where users can congregate on a per-interest basis, which adds up to a huge total yet feels relatively relatively more cozy
  - companyhen 12y ago
    r/hiphopheads (I started it though)
  - RyJones 12y ago
    http://reddit.com/r/answers http://reddit.com/r/answers I like to think it's well moderated
  - dredmorbius 12y ago
    There are several well-moderated subreddits. AskHistorians, AskScience, and Science all come to mind. Even some of the very highly trafficked subs do amazingly well (yes, with some bumps). And there are exceptions as well, as there is abuse. The ability for fringe interests to effectively hijack subreddits is a particularly troubling dynamic. See the case involving, of all things, xkcd discussion on reddit: http://www.dailydot.com/news/xkcd-reddit-moderator-drama/ http://www.dailydot.com/news/xkcd-reddit-moderator-drama/ http://wizzley.com/reddit-holocaust/ http://wizzley.com/reddit-holocaust/ There are some interesting reddit rules which play into this: • subreddits are considered community, not personal, resources. If a subreddit's moderator goes AWOL (fails to log in to reddit for 2 months), the sub may be assumed by another moderator. Note that merely failing to moderate a sub isn't considered AWOL. • Once installed, moderators are not (or are only very, very rarely) removed by reddit admins. • To clarify, moderators are ordinary reddit users who moderate subs. Admins are actual paid reddit staff who run the site. • Senior moderators can remove more junior mods. There's no provision for voting among subscribers or moderators in the event of perceived abuse. • The generally recognized remedy is to create an alternate subreddit with different mods. This happens with some regularity. You'll now find /r/xkcdcomic as an alternate to the original sub, and with a subscriber count approaching that of the original. These rules are generally laid out in the reddit FAQ: http://www.reddit.com/wiki/faq#wiki_moderators http://www.reddit.com/wiki/faq#wiki_moderators
zachlipton 12y ago
The $5 entry fee has never been about revenue and my understanding is that it never netted all that much revenue. Most of the money, to my knowledge, came from AdSense ads shown to logged-out users through search traffic. The gatekeeper fee does a lot to build a community of people who are committed to the site and want to be there.

by mutagen 12y ago

brandnewlow 12y ago

In the last 5 years we've seen both Quora, StackOverflow launch and gain serious traction and Yelp has consolidated its position as a top destination for local search. AskMeFi likely is seeing the results of going up against massively VC-backed competitors. It's hard to imagine Google's search updates were aimed at prioritizing "worthless sites". Edit: And Reddit & Imgur have exploded. Those have probably had even bigger impacts.

dublinben 12y ago
I've visited MetaFilter on an off for many years, and I've never heard of AskMeFi before today. I didn't even know they had a section that was similar to Quora or SO. I've only ever seen it as a link aggregation community.
- davis 12y ago
  That's strange because I feel that AskMeFi is what keeps me going back and visiting.
mutagen 12y ago
That's very true. I'm thinking more of the about.com type of results (which would also qualify for your description of a well funded competitor). Perhaps I was too disparaging of Google's changes, overall they're increased search quality. I just find it unfortunate when sites like Metafilter get downranked as collateral damage.
- brandnewlow 12y ago
  There's certainly a lot of crappy sites out there! I think they probably got hit just as hard. VCs wouldn't be pumping money into the Rap Genius' of the world if they weren't seeing big wins there. Eventually a site like MeFi gets crowded out.

cheriot 12y ago

I can't help but wonder if reddit's still growing popularity is a contributing factor. reddit found a slightly better way for the community to moderate itself so they've been able to have a higher programmer to moderator ratio.

maxerickson 12y ago
It's a different and cheaper way to moderate a community. I don't think that necessarily gets you all the way to better.
thenmar 12y ago
What way is that? Reddit's staff are intentionally hands-off and it really shows. In fact, the only successfully moderated subreddit of any significant size I can think of is r/askhistorians.
- judk 12y ago
  Why does significant size matter? Reddit has thousands of subs where users can congregate on a per-interest basis, which adds up to a huge total yet feels relatively relatively more cozy
- companyhen 12y ago
  r/hiphopheads (I started it though)
- RyJones 12y ago
  http://reddit.com/r/answers http://reddit.com/r/answers I like to think it's well moderated
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  There are several well-moderated subreddits. AskHistorians, AskScience, and Science all come to mind. Even some of the very highly trafficked subs do amazingly well (yes, with some bumps). And there are exceptions as well, as there is abuse. The ability for fringe interests to effectively hijack subreddits is a particularly troubling dynamic. See the case involving, of all things, xkcd discussion on reddit: http://www.dailydot.com/news/xkcd-reddit-moderator-drama/ http://www.dailydot.com/news/xkcd-reddit-moderator-drama/ http://wizzley.com/reddit-holocaust/ http://wizzley.com/reddit-holocaust/ There are some interesting reddit rules which play into this: • subreddits are considered community, not personal, resources. If a subreddit's moderator goes AWOL (fails to log in to reddit for 2 months), the sub may be assumed by another moderator. Note that merely failing to moderate a sub isn't considered AWOL. • Once installed, moderators are not (or are only very, very rarely) removed by reddit admins. • To clarify, moderators are ordinary reddit users who moderate subs. Admins are actual paid reddit staff who run the site. • Senior moderators can remove more junior mods. There's no provision for voting among subscribers or moderators in the event of perceived abuse. • The generally recognized remedy is to create an alternate subreddit with different mods. This happens with some regularity. You'll now find /r/xkcdcomic as an alternate to the original sub, and with a subscriber count approaching that of the original. These rules are generally laid out in the reddit FAQ: http://www.reddit.com/wiki/faq#wiki_moderators http://www.reddit.com/wiki/faq#wiki_moderators

zachlipton 12y ago

The $5 entry fee has never been about revenue and my understanding is that it never netted all that much revenue. Most of the money, to my knowledge, came from AdSense ads shown to logged-out users through search traffic. The gatekeeper fee does a lot to build a community of people who are committed to the site and want to be there.