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Hoodie works no different than Gmail. What’s the worst that can happen there?

by janl 12y ago

billyhoffman 12y ago
Well you sure as shit aren't going to see "hoodie.account.signUp(username, password);" in Gmail's client-side code. Gmail's code base is not a "offline first, mobile first" platform. The API that is exposed to the client-side is fairly light (watch the traffic). I highly suggest use research "business logic flaws" in web apps. Anything Jeremiah Grossman has said on this topic is good stuff.
- janl 12y ago
  They have frontend code that will talk to /singup or whatever the route for creating an account is. Hoodie does nothing different. Thanks for the pointer to Jeremiah, though :)
- pokstad 12y ago
  Can you give an example for why that signup code is bad? In the case that I'm using Hoodie with CouchDB, wouldn't Hoodie just AJAX post a user document to the CouchDB _users database (which is a good implementation)? All of the access control would be in the hands of the server with minimal (if any at all) security logic in the front end.
- onezerozeroone 12y ago
  Yeah, but you're going to see a <form> that POSTs to some target URL, with username and password as fields. The only thing protecting the plaintext password from leaking is SSL. POSTing a XmlHttpRequest is equivalent.
- camus2 12y ago
  the signup seems to be handled by couchdb.
dasil003 12y ago
How is one of the first apps to popularize AJAX, developed on top of a proprietary cross-compiling framework by a top-3 web giant "no different" from Hoodie? Obviously you're getting at some specific point that is completely obscured by the ridiculousness of the comparison. Hopefully it's more than "client-side logic can be useful" because that much is obvious on its face. It's also obvious that the idealized promise of no-backend falls apart pretty quickly for a majority of real world apps. So what is your point exactly?
- janl 12y ago
  Sorry, from “delivering business logic to the client” perspective, Hoodie is no different in concept on that angle. Lots of things are very different, of course :)
EGreg 12y ago
On a related note, how does MailChimp have "confirm subscription" link IN MY GMAIL LIST? http://cl.ly/image/1o1K2f202T3c http://cl.ly/image/1o1K2f202T3c
- rcsorensen 12y ago
  Gmail's "Actions" API. https://developers.google.com/gmail/actions/reference/one-click-action https://developers.google.com/gmail/actions/reference/one-cl...
- sinak 12y ago
  It's a Gmail feature called "Actions" and was launched back in 2013: https://developers.google.com/gmail/actions/actions/actions-overview https://developers.google.com/gmail/actions/actions/actions-... I'm actually surprised so few companies have implemented it thus far.
lern_too_spel 12y ago
The difference is server-side validation of untrusted client requests.
- janl 12y ago
  Hoodie does server-side validation of untrusted data.
  - lern_too_spel 12y ago
    Not yet. https://github.com/espy/hoodie-plugin-tutorial https://github.com/espy/hoodie-plugin-tutorial "This document describes functionality and features that don't exist yet."
    - janl 12y ago
      I’m a Hoodie developer, I know what Hoodie does and doesn’t. That disclaimer is just there because some of the things don’t yet work as documented. The particular feature is definitely in existence :)
      - janl 12y ago
        There, I fixed it :) https://github.com/espy/hoodie-plugin-tutorial/pull/13 https://github.com/espy/hoodie-plugin-tutorial/pull/13

Hoodie works no different than Gmail. What’s the worst that can happen there?

by janl 12y ago

Hoodie works no different than Gmail. What’s the worst that can happen there?

Well you sure as shit aren't going to see "hoodie.account.signUp(username, password);" in Gmail's client-side code. Gmail's code base is not a "offline first, mobile first" platform. The API that is exposed to the client-side is fairly light (watch the traffic). I highly suggest use research "business logic flaws" in web apps. Anything Jeremiah Grossman has said on this topic is good stuff.

janl 12y ago
They have frontend code that will talk to /singup or whatever the route for creating an account is. Hoodie does nothing different. Thanks for the pointer to Jeremiah, though :)
pokstad 12y ago
Can you give an example for why that signup code is bad? In the case that I'm using Hoodie with CouchDB, wouldn't Hoodie just AJAX post a user document to the CouchDB _users database (which is a good implementation)? All of the access control would be in the hands of the server with minimal (if any at all) security logic in the front end.
onezerozeroone 12y ago
Yeah, but you're going to see a <form> that POSTs to some target URL, with username and password as fields. The only thing protecting the plaintext password from leaking is SSL. POSTing a XmlHttpRequest is equivalent.
camus2 12y ago
the signup seems to be handled by couchdb.

dasil003 12y ago

How is one of the first apps to popularize AJAX, developed on top of a proprietary cross-compiling framework by a top-3 web giant "no different" from Hoodie? Obviously you're getting at some specific point that is completely obscured by the ridiculousness of the comparison. Hopefully it's more than "client-side logic can be useful" because that much is obvious on its face. It's also obvious that the idealized promise of no-backend falls apart pretty quickly for a majority of real world apps. So what is your point exactly?

janl 12y ago
Sorry, from “delivering business logic to the client” perspective, Hoodie is no different in concept on that angle. Lots of things are very different, of course :)

EGreg 12y ago

On a related note, how does MailChimp have "confirm subscription" link IN MY GMAIL LIST? http://cl.ly/image/1o1K2f202T3c http://cl.ly/image/1o1K2f202T3c

rcsorensen 12y ago
Gmail's "Actions" API. https://developers.google.com/gmail/actions/reference/one-click-action https://developers.google.com/gmail/actions/reference/one-cl...
sinak 12y ago
It's a Gmail feature called "Actions" and was launched back in 2013: https://developers.google.com/gmail/actions/actions/actions-overview https://developers.google.com/gmail/actions/actions/actions-... I'm actually surprised so few companies have implemented it thus far.

lern_too_spel 12y ago

The difference is server-side validation of untrusted client requests.

janl 12y ago
Hoodie does server-side validation of untrusted data.
- lern_too_spel 12y ago
  Not yet. https://github.com/espy/hoodie-plugin-tutorial https://github.com/espy/hoodie-plugin-tutorial "This document describes functionality and features that don't exist yet."
  - janl 12y ago
    I’m a Hoodie developer, I know what Hoodie does and doesn’t. That disclaimer is just there because some of the things don’t yet work as documented. The particular feature is definitely in existence :)
    - janl 12y ago
      There, I fixed it :) https://github.com/espy/hoodie-plugin-tutorial/pull/13 https://github.com/espy/hoodie-plugin-tutorial/pull/13