5 ms·

Inside the US government’s war on tech support scammers

83 points by alister 12y ago

sirdogealot 12y ago
One of these assholes incessantly calls up my grandmother (and everybody else in her building) daily, proceeds to scream at her when she denies owning a computer, insisting she does. Then calls her a liar (that she is lying she does not own a computer) until she unwillingly hangs up the phone... upset and confused as to why some young man is calling and yelling at her. They're all coming from random phone numbers, and there seems to be literally nothing you can do to stop it. Apart from screening every one of her calls for her. There really are some scummy people out there, unfortunately.
- andreasvc 12y ago
  How about getting a new, unlisted number?
  - sirdogealot 12y ago
    That's not really an option for a 95 year old woman whose friends only know and use the phonebook, unless she wants to risk losing contact with probably half of them.
yepyepyep 12y ago
A friend of mine was approached by a similar operation to help them acquire a merchant account. As part of due delegince he went to their office and did cursory research. He got them the merchant account. And then he started seeing the money roll in. Within 24 hours he heard from his merchant company whom he had a relationship with. They alerted him to the scam. He immediately refunded everyone charged despite his "friend" begging him to release the funds. They give India a bad name and will ensure no call center business remains. Scumbags.
jpatokal 12y ago
Up next, the city government's war on jaywalking and the county library's war on overdue books.
alokyadav15 12y ago
Most of the so called call centers and scammers are located at kolkata-India ( I know because I live in Kolkata-India ) , I hate how they scam and loot money from innocent people . Contact Indian Govt' ( Its changed now ) . and tell them about situation . all this things creating a really bad image of India .
- voltagex_ 12y ago
  It does create a really bad image. Someone once traced the scammers all the way back to the Indian bank they were using. Do you think the banks care?
  - prawn 12y ago
    Bank probably knows you're unlikely to have much proof. I guess it's similar to the way people get away with putting flyers on car windscreens or paste up posters on buildings. You know with almost absolute certainty that the company being advertised is ultimately responsible, but unless you can connect all the dots, your complaint might not get anywhere.
- venomsnake 12y ago
  Most people won't judge so fast a nation of 1.3 billion based on a few scammers. In the last few weeks Nigeria got much more (deserved) bad reputation due to the kidnappings than for 15 years of scamming combined.
willvarfar 12y ago
These days its phonecalls. Everyone is continuously ringed by "Microsoft Technical Support". Given what the HNers know about proxies and VoIP, I don't imagine there is a technical solution short of phone networks only accepting VoIP from some kind of certificate authority, which can be aggressively policed (by Western phone companies, somehow motivated to protect their customers and their good name)?
- null_ptr 12y ago
  Phone systems really do seem needlessly outdated, they're the paid service with the crappiest user experience today. Why is it possible for some creep to call me from ostentatiously fake numbers like "1111111111" or "111 222 333" at 3am only to spout gibberish, try to scam me, or just stay silent on the other end?
  - noselasd 12y ago
    I can pick up a headset, push a button and talk to almost anyone in the world. That is not a crappy user experience, despite other problems it might have.
    - TheCoelacanth 12y ago
      On the flip-side, almost anyone in the world can pick up a headset, push a button and talk to me. That is a crappy user experience.
- rwallace 12y ago
  The obvious solution is for phones to work on a whitelist basis: only accept calls from a list of known good numbers. Honestly, I'm astonished people put up with this kind of thing. If I was getting the kind of phone spam people are reporting, and no phone company was offering whitelisting, I'd just keep my phone turned off unless I needed it to make an outgoing call.
  - rahimnathwani 12y ago
jds375 12y ago
I always wondered how those 'YOUR COMPUTER IS INFECTED' ads actually were profitable. Now I see. A very informative article. It goes to show that some simple social engineering can outdo a vast amount of actual computer engineering when it comes to using technology to scam people.
- blueskin_ 12y ago
  Often they just open a payment gateway and ask the victim for money. Sometimes they install banking malware instead/as well.
simula67 12y ago
I was just reading through the righteous rants at http://pccare247ripoffcomplaintsreviewscams.wordpress.com http://pccare247ripoffcomplaintsreviewscams.wordpress.com. What is his angle here ? Was it some bad manager who asked his team at PCCare247 to get more clients by any means necessary while keeping their activities hidden from upper management ? What else could have happened ? The FTC recorded that the company 1. Told their clients they had viruses when they did not 2. Profited from this lie. This is the central issue here. Oh and by the way, 'we are going to adhere to the golden adage of Silence Is Golden while simultaneously blogging that resolutions were made ( without providing any evidence ) and extolling the possibly non-existing company virtues'.
- Danieru 12y ago
  That looks like a cover tactic. When users are curious about a company they often search company_name + " scam" or "complaint". Whoever set that site up wants to top those search results. Just look at how often they mention the company's name. Granted such a blatant attempt is not going to fool Google, but it does show intention. If I could guess whoever ran the scam tried yet another under-handed tactic to mislead victims.
- rurounijones 12y ago
  wow, even given the idea that this is written by someone who is "English as a second language" these come across as somewhat unhinged.
logicchains 12y ago
To anyone who suffers regular harassment like this, I recommend purchasing a singing bowl[1]. It's like a cross between a bowl, a bell and a large gong; when they call, place the phone receiver inside the bowl and strike the bowl repeatedly. Do this a couple times and chances are they won't call again. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_bowl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_bowl
- blueskin_ 12y ago
  Amazing. I read something a long time ago where someone suggested building an amplifier into your phone's mic on a switch so you can shout at spammers, but this idea is a lot more simple.
- Spooky23 12y ago
  My way of dealing with it is giving the phone to my two year old. He gets a kick out of it, and usually keeps the scammers on the hook for a few minutes.
  - shiftpgdn 12y ago
    I would really recommend against this. Your child picks up nearly every word they hear. Some Indian shouting cursewords/insults at them isn't good for a developing brain.
- narag 12y ago
  I simply ask them to wait and leave the phone unattended for a couple of minutes. If they're still there, I say hi, sorry and turn to ask them to wait. I like this method because I don't have to lie, argue, insult or harm anybody, while the marketers waste time that they could use to annoy fellow humans. Oh, and it's very effective.
slipstream- 12y ago
I once trolled a tech support scammer pretty hard through his own incompetence. He kept on trying to run a .NET based registry cleaner in my VM without the .net framework installed, and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work. (I managed to grab the files out of the VM before he deleted them, and it was actually a registry cleaner, some rebrand of a commercial product that I forgot the name of now)
RealGeek 12y ago
An Indian company called iYogi is the pioneer of this scam. They have even raised over $85 million from these Investors:Saama Capital, Draper Fisher Jurvetson (DFJ), SAP Ventures, Canaan Partners, Sequoia Capital. https://www.google.com/search?q=iyogi+scam https://www.google.com/search?q=iyogi+scam

83 points by alister 12y ago

One of these assholes incessantly calls up my grandmother (and everybody else in her building) daily, proceeds to scream at her when she denies owning a computer, insisting she does. Then calls her a liar (that she is lying she does not own a computer) until she unwillingly hangs up the phone... upset and confused as to why some young man is calling and yelling at her. They're all coming from random phone numbers, and there seems to be literally nothing you can do to stop it. Apart from screening every one of her calls for her. There really are some scummy people out there, unfortunately.

andreasvc 12y ago
How about getting a new, unlisted number?
- sirdogealot 12y ago
  That's not really an option for a 95 year old woman whose friends only know and use the phonebook, unless she wants to risk losing contact with probably half of them.

yepyepyep 12y ago

A friend of mine was approached by a similar operation to help them acquire a merchant account. As part of due delegince he went to their office and did cursory research. He got them the merchant account. And then he started seeing the money roll in. Within 24 hours he heard from his merchant company whom he had a relationship with. They alerted him to the scam. He immediately refunded everyone charged despite his "friend" begging him to release the funds. They give India a bad name and will ensure no call center business remains. Scumbags.

jpatokal 12y ago

Up next, the city government's war on jaywalking and the county library's war on overdue books.

alokyadav15 12y ago

Most of the so called call centers and scammers are located at kolkata-India ( I know because I live in Kolkata-India ) , I hate how they scam and loot money from innocent people . Contact Indian Govt' ( Its changed now ) . and tell them about situation . all this things creating a really bad image of India .

voltagex_ 12y ago
It does create a really bad image. Someone once traced the scammers all the way back to the Indian bank they were using. Do you think the banks care?
- prawn 12y ago
  Bank probably knows you're unlikely to have much proof. I guess it's similar to the way people get away with putting flyers on car windscreens or paste up posters on buildings. You know with almost absolute certainty that the company being advertised is ultimately responsible, but unless you can connect all the dots, your complaint might not get anywhere.
venomsnake 12y ago
Most people won't judge so fast a nation of 1.3 billion based on a few scammers. In the last few weeks Nigeria got much more (deserved) bad reputation due to the kidnappings than for 15 years of scamming combined.

willvarfar 12y ago

These days its phonecalls. Everyone is continuously ringed by "Microsoft Technical Support". Given what the HNers know about proxies and VoIP, I don't imagine there is a technical solution short of phone networks only accepting VoIP from some kind of certificate authority, which can be aggressively policed (by Western phone companies, somehow motivated to protect their customers and their good name)?

null_ptr 12y ago
Phone systems really do seem needlessly outdated, they're the paid service with the crappiest user experience today. Why is it possible for some creep to call me from ostentatiously fake numbers like "1111111111" or "111 222 333" at 3am only to spout gibberish, try to scam me, or just stay silent on the other end?
- noselasd 12y ago
  I can pick up a headset, push a button and talk to almost anyone in the world. That is not a crappy user experience, despite other problems it might have.
  - TheCoelacanth 12y ago
    On the flip-side, almost anyone in the world can pick up a headset, push a button and talk to me. That is a crappy user experience.
rwallace 12y ago
The obvious solution is for phones to work on a whitelist basis: only accept calls from a list of known good numbers. Honestly, I'm astonished people put up with this kind of thing. If I was getting the kind of phone spam people are reporting, and no phone company was offering whitelisting, I'd just keep my phone turned off unless I needed it to make an outgoing call.
- rahimnathwani 12y ago

jds375 12y ago

I always wondered how those 'YOUR COMPUTER IS INFECTED' ads actually were profitable. Now I see. A very informative article. It goes to show that some simple social engineering can outdo a vast amount of actual computer engineering when it comes to using technology to scam people.

blueskin_ 12y ago
Often they just open a payment gateway and ask the victim for money. Sometimes they install banking malware instead/as well.

simula67 12y ago

I was just reading through the righteous rants at http://pccare247ripoffcomplaintsreviewscams.wordpress.com http://pccare247ripoffcomplaintsreviewscams.wordpress.com. What is his angle here ? Was it some bad manager who asked his team at PCCare247 to get more clients by any means necessary while keeping their activities hidden from upper management ? What else could have happened ? The FTC recorded that the company 1. Told their clients they had viruses when they did not 2. Profited from this lie. This is the central issue here. Oh and by the way, 'we are going to adhere to the golden adage of Silence Is Golden while simultaneously blogging that resolutions were made ( without providing any evidence ) and extolling the possibly non-existing company virtues'.

Danieru 12y ago
That looks like a cover tactic. When users are curious about a company they often search company_name + " scam" or "complaint". Whoever set that site up wants to top those search results. Just look at how often they mention the company's name. Granted such a blatant attempt is not going to fool Google, but it does show intention. If I could guess whoever ran the scam tried yet another under-handed tactic to mislead victims.
rurounijones 12y ago
wow, even given the idea that this is written by someone who is "English as a second language" these come across as somewhat unhinged.

logicchains 12y ago

To anyone who suffers regular harassment like this, I recommend purchasing a singing bowl[1]. It's like a cross between a bowl, a bell and a large gong; when they call, place the phone receiver inside the bowl and strike the bowl repeatedly. Do this a couple times and chances are they won't call again. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_bowl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_bowl

blueskin_ 12y ago
Amazing. I read something a long time ago where someone suggested building an amplifier into your phone's mic on a switch so you can shout at spammers, but this idea is a lot more simple.
Spooky23 12y ago
My way of dealing with it is giving the phone to my two year old. He gets a kick out of it, and usually keeps the scammers on the hook for a few minutes.
- shiftpgdn 12y ago
  I would really recommend against this. Your child picks up nearly every word they hear. Some Indian shouting cursewords/insults at them isn't good for a developing brain.
narag 12y ago
I simply ask them to wait and leave the phone unattended for a couple of minutes. If they're still there, I say hi, sorry and turn to ask them to wait. I like this method because I don't have to lie, argue, insult or harm anybody, while the marketers waste time that they could use to annoy fellow humans. Oh, and it's very effective.

slipstream- 12y ago

I once trolled a tech support scammer pretty hard through his own incompetence. He kept on trying to run a .NET based registry cleaner in my VM without the .net framework installed, and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work. (I managed to grab the files out of the VM before he deleted them, and it was actually a registry cleaner, some rebrand of a commercial product that I forgot the name of now)

RealGeek 12y ago

An Indian company called iYogi is the pioneer of this scam. They have even raised over $85 million from these Investors:Saama Capital, Draper Fisher Jurvetson (DFJ), SAP Ventures, Canaan Partners, Sequoia Capital. https://www.google.com/search?q=iyogi+scam https://www.google.com/search?q=iyogi+scam