4 ms·

But why $25/hr? A 50 hour work week would bring in $62,000 a year. A married couple working "minimum wage" jobs would make over $120,000 a year. That's crazy.

But why $25/hr? A 50 hour work week would bring in $62,000 a year. A married couple working "minimum wage" jobs would make over $120,000 a year. That's crazy. The "minimum wage" would put a couple in the top 10% of American household earners. Working backwards from a stated goal that a hard working Amarican married couple should be "middle class", and should make a middle class income of $60,000 (about what people consider middle class), working 50 hours a week equates to a minimum wage of $12/hr. (Given, my equation breaks down when considering unmarried parents, but it's a quick way to discuss what is the "ideal" minimum wage. If you work, you're middle class - if you choose not to work, that naturally results in lower income)

Spiritus 12y ago
Why would you calculate on a 50 hour work week? That's ~10 too much.
- bhaak 12y ago
  The common Swiss work week is 42 hours. So it's "only" a 8 hours difference.
  - jellicle 12y ago
    42 paid hours?
    - bhaak 12y ago
      Yes, although if you work full-time, you are usually not paid by the hour, but have a fixed salary.
- bluedevil2k 12y ago
  Too much by whose definition? What's wrong with the notion of "work hard and get a middle class life". The notion of "work the bare minimum and get an upper middle class life" won't have the same result.
  - Spiritus 12y ago
    By European definition.
    - bluedevil2k 12y ago
      Doesn't most of Europe lag the world in economic growth?
      - Spiritus 12y ago
        So? They still work around 40 hours a week, and not 50.
        bluedevil2k 12y ago
        High taxes, high social welfare and a stagnant economy are recipes for disaster - see Greece, Italy, Portugal....
        Spiritus 12y ago
        The point was that your calculations were off since you were basing them on a 50 hour work week when in reality the average is around 40 hours. Not how to run an economy.
- dalke 12y ago
  The calculation also assumes working 50 (actually, 49.6) weeks per year. Swiss employees, however, have more holiday time than the US. $25/hour * 40 hours/week * 47 weeks = $47,000 .
tonfa 12y ago
Don't assume cost of life in US and Switzerland are identical (unless you live in the bay area they are not).
Silhouette 12y ago
To be more realistic figures for Switzerland, we might use these figures for full-time employment: $25/h pay 42 hours/week typical working hours 45 weeks/year typical working days That gives us a figure of $47,250/person, or just under $95k for a household with two full-time earners. In the US, that would be a little under the midpoint of household incomes, i.e., more households do earn more than that. [This is wrong. See edit below.] Remembering that Switzerland has relatively low income inequality, relatively high cost of living, and relatively high salaries (typically 2-3x what the same job would earn in most of Europe), the proposed figure doesn't look crazy from here. Edit: The first source I found turned out to be completely wrong about US income levels. Thanks to 'bluedevil2k for pointing this out. Checking multiple other sources, the median individual income is reported as around $27k, though it's not immediately clear whether the various alternative stats I found were calculated only for full-time employees or also included the unemployed, part-time staff, pensioners, and the like, all of which would presumably tend to bring the figure down. On reflection, for this discussion the mean individual income, including all income types, is probably more interesting. That is a little over $40k in the US, or about $81k for a household with two full-time earners, if it could be translated directly into wages. Given the differences in cost of living and typical salary levels for Switzerland, and the wide variations in salary depending on which part of the US you're looking at, I'm not sure this would change my overall conclusion that the proposed minimum wage in Switzerland isn't completely crazy on direct affordability grounds, though clearly it looks more optimistic in light of the adjusted figures.
- bluedevil2k 12y ago
  "In the US, that would be a little under the midpoint of household incomes" -- that's not true at all. The median household income in the US in 2012 was $51,371 (www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr12-02.pdf). That's WELL below $97k. $97k would put you about the 70th percentile.
  - Silhouette 12y ago
    Thanks. The first source I found (without much more than a quick search, I admit) turned out to be way off what everyone else seems to say. I've edited my original post accordingly.

Spiritus 12y ago

Why would you calculate on a 50 hour work week? That's ~10 too much.

bhaak 12y ago
The common Swiss work week is 42 hours. So it's "only" a 8 hours difference.
- jellicle 12y ago
  42 paid hours?
  - bhaak 12y ago
    Yes, although if you work full-time, you are usually not paid by the hour, but have a fixed salary.
bluedevil2k 12y ago
Too much by whose definition? What's wrong with the notion of "work hard and get a middle class life". The notion of "work the bare minimum and get an upper middle class life" won't have the same result.
- Spiritus 12y ago
  By European definition.
  - bluedevil2k 12y ago
    Doesn't most of Europe lag the world in economic growth?
    - Spiritus 12y ago
      So? They still work around 40 hours a week, and not 50.
      - bluedevil2k 12y ago
        High taxes, high social welfare and a stagnant economy are recipes for disaster - see Greece, Italy, Portugal....
        Spiritus 12y ago
        The point was that your calculations were off since you were basing them on a 50 hour work week when in reality the average is around 40 hours. Not how to run an economy.
dalke 12y ago
The calculation also assumes working 50 (actually, 49.6) weeks per year. Swiss employees, however, have more holiday time than the US. $25/hour * 40 hours/week * 47 weeks = $47,000 .

tonfa 12y ago

Don't assume cost of life in US and Switzerland are identical (unless you live in the bay area they are not).

Silhouette 12y ago

To be more realistic figures for Switzerland, we might use these figures for full-time employment: $25/h pay 42 hours/week typical working hours 45 weeks/year typical working days That gives us a figure of $47,250/person, or just under $95k for a household with two full-time earners. In the US, that would be a little under the midpoint of household incomes, i.e., more households do earn more than that. [This is wrong. See edit below.] Remembering that Switzerland has relatively low income inequality, relatively high cost of living, and relatively high salaries (typically 2-3x what the same job would earn in most of Europe), the proposed figure doesn't look crazy from here. Edit: The first source I found turned out to be completely wrong about US income levels. Thanks to 'bluedevil2k for pointing this out. Checking multiple other sources, the median individual income is reported as around $27k, though it's not immediately clear whether the various alternative stats I found were calculated only for full-time employees or also included the unemployed, part-time staff, pensioners, and the like, all of which would presumably tend to bring the figure down. On reflection, for this discussion the mean individual income, including all income types, is probably more interesting. That is a little over $40k in the US, or about $81k for a household with two full-time earners, if it could be translated directly into wages. Given the differences in cost of living and typical salary levels for Switzerland, and the wide variations in salary depending on which part of the US you're looking at, I'm not sure this would change my overall conclusion that the proposed minimum wage in Switzerland isn't completely crazy on direct affordability grounds, though clearly it looks more optimistic in light of the adjusted figures.

bluedevil2k 12y ago
"In the US, that would be a little under the midpoint of household incomes" -- that's not true at all. The median household income in the US in 2012 was $51,371 (www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr12-02.pdf). That's WELL below $97k. $97k would put you about the 70th percentile.
- Silhouette 12y ago
  Thanks. The first source I found (without much more than a quick search, I admit) turned out to be way off what everyone else seems to say. I've edited my original post accordingly.