6 ms·

Life360 CEO calls patent troll "Piece of Shit"

47 points by stevencorona 12y ago

caffeineninja 12y ago
The relevant case documents: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flsdce/9:2014cv80651/441826 http://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flsdce/9:2014cv8065...
- caffeineninja 12y ago
  And the patent numbers: 7,031,728, 8,126,441 & 7,672,681 which cover "using a map to initiate a rapid voice communication or text message"
stevencorona 12y ago
Just speculation (I work at Life360), but we announced our $50m Series C this week.. looks like the patent troll got the news, too.
Nexxxeh 12y ago
Calling a spade "a spade" is one thing, but this does seem a bit childish. Edit: typo
- caffeineninja 12y ago
  Morals are out the door when attempting to extort money from legitimate companies to fill your coffers.
  - akerl_ 12y ago
    I wasn't aware we should behave poorly just because patent trolls behave poorly.
    - stevejones 12y ago
      One party is engaging in extortion, the other used an insult. Have a sense of proportion.
crhulls 12y ago
Hi guys, Life360's CEO here. Thanks for the help. As a bit more color, the company that is suing is seems to be failing and this is a desperate last gasp. Checkout http://www.agisinc.com/ http://www.agisinc.com/ As Steve mentioned, we just raised $50m, so we have to spend some real cash to get this invalidated, we'll do it. When we were smaller we would just pay these assholes off, but now we have a warchest we won't roll over so easy.
- gnoway 12y ago
  I don't think a company helmed by the inventor which actually sells a product based on the patents is a patent troll. How do you know the company is failing? And why would that knowledge lead you to believe both that their inquiry was trollish and that it was responsible and appropriate to reply as you did? Forgive me if I'm just missing the obvious; I have not studied the patents in question and I wouldn't know whether they were legit if I did. But I think of a patent troll as an entity which acquires patents from other companies/inventors for the sole purpose of litigating them, and this company does not appear to fit that model at all.
- akerl_ 12y ago
  I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but while lots of us will support your feelings, your choice of how to display them makes you appear childish. It's unlikely to help your overall point.
  - crhulls 12y ago
    Yea, it was childish, but you know what...it felt good. The whole thing is such a broken mess that giving them the standard prim and proper legal response only helps perpetuate a broken system. Also, now they are going right to suing us instead of asking for a settlement. This is good for everyone else, because if we win, their patent is invalidated and they can't do this to another company. I think Series B/C/D companies like us should take these more aggressive stands. We are big enough we don't have to roll over, but we are still small enough that we don't have to be beholden to our own legal departments.
- xelipe 12y ago
blhack 12y ago
I don't really think that AGIS is a patent troll... It looks like they're a real company that makes real products.
- crhulls 12y ago
  You can be a "real" company and still be a patent troll. These guys are probably failing and using their patents to get a few bucks before they finally die.
  - xelipe 12y ago
    Your definition is not accurate. Just because one company raises more money than another does not make the company failing in the market place a patent troll. By this definition IBM is a patent troll.
    - crhulls 12y ago
      I don't think amount raised has anything to do with it. I'd say you are a patent troll anytime you are using a bullshit patent to extort a third party. The rub is what constitutes a bullshit patent, but "sending messages through a map UI" seems obviously in this camp. It sucks you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for the courts to validate this logic though. So by that definition, I'm sure IBM could be a patent troll, just like any other company with BS IP.
      - paul9290 12y ago
        So your company doesn't own any patents?
        xname 12y ago
        There are patents and bullshit patents.
us0r 12y ago
Awesome if it is a troll. More people should do it. It appears this is an actual company though and they filled in Florida not East Texas?
moubarak 12y ago
What i don't understand is why do they start with a lawsuit. Why didn't they contact Life360 to work something out, like a partnership. Life360 seems to be the big fish. A greedy small fish trying to eat a big fish is a bad idea i think.
- scrabble 12y ago
  The document very explicitly states that they contacted Life360 to work out a patent licensing arrangement, not with a lawsuit. So they did exactly what you suggested. It looks like the suit wasn't filed until they were called a "Piece of Shit" for attempting to work something out.
  - moubarak 12y ago
    ok got it. jeez with the down votes!
le_meta 12y ago
This is HN now.
justinsb 12y ago
If you're hoping to see patent reform, this dispute seems to be the wrong one to focus on. This strikes me as more of a genuine argument, and not a flagrant abuse of the system that would likely lead to change: * AGIS seems to be a genuine company, that filed its own patents, and has a real product. There are much clearer examples of trolls out there. * The patent claims are highly specific. This is not a "...on the Internet" type patent. * Life360 is not (yet) claiming they don't infringe; they are focusing on obviousness. * The patent system now has a relatively straightforward, quick and inexpensive system for getting a patent re-examined. Life360 hasn't (yet) said they will do that. * The Life360 strategy seems to be primarily PR-driven: attention-grabbing language, posting things on Twitter, contacting journalists, etc. This reminds me of the legal saying: "If you’re weak on the facts and strong on the law, pound the law. If you’re weak on the law and strong on the facts, pound the facts. If you’re weak on both, pound the table." To my mind, this argument seems more likely to boil down to "should ideas be protected by patents", instead of "should we do something about shell companies that abuse patent law to extort money".
mullingitover 12y ago
So explain like I'm five: is this an overly broad patent on an idea, e.g. they have a 'system and method for catching mice' and they're suing everyone who makes anything that catches mice? Or did they invent a particular type of mouse trap, and they're suing over someone who is selling the exact same implementation? I love a good angry mob as much as the next guy, and can fully get behind the name-calling if there's something truly nefarious, but help me understand exactly what's being litigated here and why AGIS is deserving of the 'piece of shit' label.

47 points by stevencorona 12y ago

The relevant case documents: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flsdce/9:2014cv80651/441826 http://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flsdce/9:2014cv8065...

caffeineninja 12y ago
And the patent numbers: 7,031,728, 8,126,441 & 7,672,681 which cover "using a map to initiate a rapid voice communication or text message"

stevencorona 12y ago

Just speculation (I work at Life360), but we announced our $50m Series C this week.. looks like the patent troll got the news, too.

Nexxxeh 12y ago

Calling a spade "a spade" is one thing, but this does seem a bit childish. Edit: typo

caffeineninja 12y ago
Morals are out the door when attempting to extort money from legitimate companies to fill your coffers.
- akerl_ 12y ago
  I wasn't aware we should behave poorly just because patent trolls behave poorly.
  - stevejones 12y ago
    One party is engaging in extortion, the other used an insult. Have a sense of proportion.

crhulls 12y ago

Hi guys, Life360's CEO here. Thanks for the help. As a bit more color, the company that is suing is seems to be failing and this is a desperate last gasp. Checkout http://www.agisinc.com/ http://www.agisinc.com/ As Steve mentioned, we just raised $50m, so we have to spend some real cash to get this invalidated, we'll do it. When we were smaller we would just pay these assholes off, but now we have a warchest we won't roll over so easy.

gnoway 12y ago
I don't think a company helmed by the inventor which actually sells a product based on the patents is a patent troll. How do you know the company is failing? And why would that knowledge lead you to believe both that their inquiry was trollish and that it was responsible and appropriate to reply as you did? Forgive me if I'm just missing the obvious; I have not studied the patents in question and I wouldn't know whether they were legit if I did. But I think of a patent troll as an entity which acquires patents from other companies/inventors for the sole purpose of litigating them, and this company does not appear to fit that model at all.
akerl_ 12y ago
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but while lots of us will support your feelings, your choice of how to display them makes you appear childish. It's unlikely to help your overall point.
- crhulls 12y ago
  Yea, it was childish, but you know what...it felt good. The whole thing is such a broken mess that giving them the standard prim and proper legal response only helps perpetuate a broken system. Also, now they are going right to suing us instead of asking for a settlement. This is good for everyone else, because if we win, their patent is invalidated and they can't do this to another company. I think Series B/C/D companies like us should take these more aggressive stands. We are big enough we don't have to roll over, but we are still small enough that we don't have to be beholden to our own legal departments.
xelipe 12y ago

blhack 12y ago

I don't really think that AGIS is a patent troll... It looks like they're a real company that makes real products.

crhulls 12y ago
You can be a "real" company and still be a patent troll. These guys are probably failing and using their patents to get a few bucks before they finally die.
- xelipe 12y ago
  Your definition is not accurate. Just because one company raises more money than another does not make the company failing in the market place a patent troll. By this definition IBM is a patent troll.
  - crhulls 12y ago
    I don't think amount raised has anything to do with it. I'd say you are a patent troll anytime you are using a bullshit patent to extort a third party. The rub is what constitutes a bullshit patent, but "sending messages through a map UI" seems obviously in this camp. It sucks you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for the courts to validate this logic though. So by that definition, I'm sure IBM could be a patent troll, just like any other company with BS IP.
    - paul9290 12y ago
      So your company doesn't own any patents?
      - xname 12y ago
        There are patents and bullshit patents.

us0r 12y ago

Awesome if it is a troll. More people should do it. It appears this is an actual company though and they filled in Florida not East Texas?

moubarak 12y ago

What i don't understand is why do they start with a lawsuit. Why didn't they contact Life360 to work something out, like a partnership. Life360 seems to be the big fish. A greedy small fish trying to eat a big fish is a bad idea i think.

scrabble 12y ago
The document very explicitly states that they contacted Life360 to work out a patent licensing arrangement, not with a lawsuit. So they did exactly what you suggested. It looks like the suit wasn't filed until they were called a "Piece of Shit" for attempting to work something out.
- moubarak 12y ago
  ok got it. jeez with the down votes!

le_meta 12y ago

This is HN now.

justinsb 12y ago

If you're hoping to see patent reform, this dispute seems to be the wrong one to focus on. This strikes me as more of a genuine argument, and not a flagrant abuse of the system that would likely lead to change: * AGIS seems to be a genuine company, that filed its own patents, and has a real product. There are much clearer examples of trolls out there. * The patent claims are highly specific. This is not a "...on the Internet" type patent. * Life360 is not (yet) claiming they don't infringe; they are focusing on obviousness. * The patent system now has a relatively straightforward, quick and inexpensive system for getting a patent re-examined. Life360 hasn't (yet) said they will do that. * The Life360 strategy seems to be primarily PR-driven: attention-grabbing language, posting things on Twitter, contacting journalists, etc. This reminds me of the legal saying: "If you’re weak on the facts and strong on the law, pound the law. If you’re weak on the law and strong on the facts, pound the facts. If you’re weak on both, pound the table." To my mind, this argument seems more likely to boil down to "should ideas be protected by patents", instead of "should we do something about shell companies that abuse patent law to extort money".

mullingitover 12y ago

So explain like I'm five: is this an overly broad patent on an idea, e.g. they have a 'system and method for catching mice' and they're suing everyone who makes anything that catches mice? Or did they invent a particular type of mouse trap, and they're suing over someone who is selling the exact same implementation? I love a good angry mob as much as the next guy, and can fully get behind the name-calling if there's something truly nefarious, but help me understand exactly what's being litigated here and why AGIS is deserving of the 'piece of shit' label.