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Our response: http://blog.wepay.com/post/86048891401/wepays-terms-of-service-as-it-relates-to-the-adult http://blog.wepay.com/post/86048891401/wepays-terms-of-s

Our response: http://blog.wepay.com/post/86048891401/wepays-terms-of-service-as-it-relates-to-the-adult http://blog.wepay.com/post/86048891401/wepays-terms-of-servi...

mbrutsch 12y ago
> Upon reviewing payments starting May 15, 2014 WePay discovered tweets from others retweeted by Eden Alexander offering adult material in exchange for donations. So essentially, she repeated something someone else said, is that about it?
- sp332 12y ago
  People were selling / donating porn to raise money through WePay, and Eden encouraged it.
- jonknee 12y ago
  She was advocating people break the terms of service for WePay (who themselves have terms of service with their vendors).
nemof 12y ago
Feel free to check out Eden's twitter and take some time to appreciate how your approach has affected her (ie she's now in hospital), then consider changing the way you deal with issues like this.
- FireBeyond 12y ago
  Eh, this is the lowest form of argument. Whatever merits this whole thing may or may not have, she's in hospital because of amongst other things, a massive staph infection, not because WePay removed her campaign.
- jonknee 12y ago
  Why would WePay risk being in breach of their own contracts because a small customer has a sad story? They are required to put a stop to transactions that don't meet the rules, even if it's sad. Internet poker to raise money for chemo would similarly be off limits despite its noble goal.
- onewaystreet 12y ago
  WePay has the same terms as PayPal, Stripe, etc. It's not out of some moral choice on their parts, it's because all of the major banks in the US deem adult content as risky and forbid it.
  - sandmansandine 12y ago
    PayPal and Dwolla seem OK with the content as long as it is not deemed illegal (we do know that Paypal deems illegal whatever it is told though) http://www.bannedwriters.com/payment-service-policies/ http://www.bannedwriters.com/payment-service-policies/ ToS are are proven by courts right...
    - us0r 12y ago
      PayPal flip flops on porn. Back in the day they use to be quite friendly.
  - nemof 12y ago
    this is ridiculous. 1) this wasn't about porn, it was about a seriously ill woman who needed help 2) she retweeted some stuff from third parties who weren't part of her campaign, probably out of ignorance, not realizing it might be a problem 3) wepay didn't do the sensible thing and just talk to her and let her know she might be breaking the ToS, they closed down her campaign, her situation escalated and now she's in ER 4) It's amazing that people just say banks deem adult content as risky, and just accept that this is ok. It only just recently broke that banks are actively closing down porn actors bank accounts just because of their profession.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - philh 12y ago
      It's sad what happened to Eden. But it would also be sad if WePay got in trouble with their back-end processor, because they'd have to pass on that cost to all their other clients. This is a shitty situation, but that doesn't mean any of the parties involved are malicious or evil. > wepay didn't do the sensible thing and just talk to her and let her know she might be breaking the ToS I agree that they probably should have done this.
makerops 12y ago
I think this is a missed opportunity. Terms may have been violated, okay, that warrants closing the account, do that, then donate enough money to her to help her out, and bask in the PR.
judk 12y ago
Your TOS does not mention the word "adult". What was the problem and how do other adult entertainers avoid the problem. This is also an opportunity to take a stand and invite other payment processors to accept funds from legal adult activities, AMD thetebynwin your business.
kungfooguru 12y ago
So you "uncovered" that third parties were offering incentives to donate for her medical care but somehow a campaign that is explicitly against your TOS continues?? http://www.gofundme.com/613loo http://www.gofundme.com/613loo
- philh 12y ago
  That campaign has received $1200 in four months. I don't expect it has a very large social media presence. It's easy to believe that they could miss it. Besides that, The violation seems to be that it's a radio show which has at one point featured: "Pastor Scott Lively joined us revealing the evils of the homosexual agenda". This violates "you will not accept payments or use the service in connection with [...] hate". This is... I mean, I agree that this is using the service in connection with hate. But if I have a criticism of WePay here, it's not "you should be taking down that fundraiser" and it isn't "leaving that fundraiser up is inconsistent with taking down Eden's". It's more like "hate is a ridiculously vague thing to disallow in your TOS".
nemof 12y ago
Also, if anyone wants to contribute to helping Eden Alexander you can read about what she's had to go through and why she needs help here: https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/eden-alexander-emergency-medical-care-fund/description https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/eden-alexander-emergency...
jeroen 12y ago
"WePay discovered tweets from others retweeted by Eden Alexander offering adult material in exchange for donations. This is in direct violation of our terms of service" Which part of the TOS did she violate?
- objclxt 12y ago
  ...well, if you actually read the TOS that they linked to you'd see it's right there under "Prohibited Activities". As WePay says, this is mainly to comply with payment gateway rules (adult services have a far, far higher fraud risk associated with them). https://www.wepay.com/legal/terms-of-service https://www.wepay.com/legal/terms-of-service
  - jeroen 12y ago
    Unfortunately, your snarky response is entirely devoid of anything close to an answer to my question. I did read the TOS and I don't see how "tweets from others retweeted by Eden Alexander offering adult material in exchange for donations" "is in direct violation of our terms of service". (quotes from http://blog.wepay.com/post/86048891401/wepays-terms-of-service-as-it-relates-to-adult http://blog.wepay.com/post/86048891401/wepays-terms-of-servi... )
Mithaldu 12y ago
Was this screenshot doctored? http://kittystryker.com/files/2014/05/Screen-Shot-2014-05-17-at-1.12.53-PM.png http://kittystryker.com/files/2014/05/Screen-Shot-2014-05-17... If not, why does it not point out the tweets that led to the decision?
- philh 12y ago
  That email was from GiveForward, not WePay.
us0r 12y ago
It does not appear the porn was going to be produced as a result of the donation. Either way the funds shouldn't have been held. I think the bigger question is - WTF is up with the Doctor? I have never heard of this. I always thought they remained neutral regardless of beliefs?

Our response: http://blog.wepay.com/post/86048891401/wepays-terms-of-service-as-it-relates-to-the-adult http://blog.wepay.com/post/86048891401/wepays-terms-of-servi...

mbrutsch 12y ago

> Upon reviewing payments starting May 15, 2014 WePay discovered tweets from others retweeted by Eden Alexander offering adult material in exchange for donations. So essentially, she repeated something someone else said, is that about it?

sp332 12y ago
People were selling / donating porn to raise money through WePay, and Eden encouraged it.
jonknee 12y ago
She was advocating people break the terms of service for WePay (who themselves have terms of service with their vendors).

nemof 12y ago

Feel free to check out Eden's twitter and take some time to appreciate how your approach has affected her (ie she's now in hospital), then consider changing the way you deal with issues like this.

FireBeyond 12y ago
Eh, this is the lowest form of argument. Whatever merits this whole thing may or may not have, she's in hospital because of amongst other things, a massive staph infection, not because WePay removed her campaign.
jonknee 12y ago
Why would WePay risk being in breach of their own contracts because a small customer has a sad story? They are required to put a stop to transactions that don't meet the rules, even if it's sad. Internet poker to raise money for chemo would similarly be off limits despite its noble goal.
onewaystreet 12y ago
WePay has the same terms as PayPal, Stripe, etc. It's not out of some moral choice on their parts, it's because all of the major banks in the US deem adult content as risky and forbid it.
- sandmansandine 12y ago
  PayPal and Dwolla seem OK with the content as long as it is not deemed illegal (we do know that Paypal deems illegal whatever it is told though) http://www.bannedwriters.com/payment-service-policies/ http://www.bannedwriters.com/payment-service-policies/ ToS are are proven by courts right...
  - us0r 12y ago
    PayPal flip flops on porn. Back in the day they use to be quite friendly.
- nemof 12y ago
  this is ridiculous. 1) this wasn't about porn, it was about a seriously ill woman who needed help 2) she retweeted some stuff from third parties who weren't part of her campaign, probably out of ignorance, not realizing it might be a problem 3) wepay didn't do the sensible thing and just talk to her and let her know she might be breaking the ToS, they closed down her campaign, her situation escalated and now she's in ER 4) It's amazing that people just say banks deem adult content as risky, and just accept that this is ok. It only just recently broke that banks are actively closing down porn actors bank accounts just because of their profession.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - philh 12y ago
    It's sad what happened to Eden. But it would also be sad if WePay got in trouble with their back-end processor, because they'd have to pass on that cost to all their other clients. This is a shitty situation, but that doesn't mean any of the parties involved are malicious or evil. > wepay didn't do the sensible thing and just talk to her and let her know she might be breaking the ToS I agree that they probably should have done this.

makerops 12y ago

I think this is a missed opportunity. Terms may have been violated, okay, that warrants closing the account, do that, then donate enough money to her to help her out, and bask in the PR.

judk 12y ago

Your TOS does not mention the word "adult". What was the problem and how do other adult entertainers avoid the problem. This is also an opportunity to take a stand and invite other payment processors to accept funds from legal adult activities, AMD thetebynwin your business.

kungfooguru 12y ago

So you "uncovered" that third parties were offering incentives to donate for her medical care but somehow a campaign that is explicitly against your TOS continues?? http://www.gofundme.com/613loo http://www.gofundme.com/613loo

philh 12y ago
That campaign has received $1200 in four months. I don't expect it has a very large social media presence. It's easy to believe that they could miss it. Besides that, The violation seems to be that it's a radio show which has at one point featured: "Pastor Scott Lively joined us revealing the evils of the homosexual agenda". This violates "you will not accept payments or use the service in connection with [...] hate". This is... I mean, I agree that this is using the service in connection with hate. But if I have a criticism of WePay here, it's not "you should be taking down that fundraiser" and it isn't "leaving that fundraiser up is inconsistent with taking down Eden's". It's more like "hate is a ridiculously vague thing to disallow in your TOS".

nemof 12y ago

Also, if anyone wants to contribute to helping Eden Alexander you can read about what she's had to go through and why she needs help here: https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/eden-alexander-emergency-medical-care-fund/description https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/eden-alexander-emergency...

jeroen 12y ago

"WePay discovered tweets from others retweeted by Eden Alexander offering adult material in exchange for donations. This is in direct violation of our terms of service" Which part of the TOS did she violate?

objclxt 12y ago
...well, if you actually read the TOS that they linked to you'd see it's right there under "Prohibited Activities". As WePay says, this is mainly to comply with payment gateway rules (adult services have a far, far higher fraud risk associated with them). https://www.wepay.com/legal/terms-of-service https://www.wepay.com/legal/terms-of-service
- jeroen 12y ago
  Unfortunately, your snarky response is entirely devoid of anything close to an answer to my question. I did read the TOS and I don't see how "tweets from others retweeted by Eden Alexander offering adult material in exchange for donations" "is in direct violation of our terms of service". (quotes from http://blog.wepay.com/post/86048891401/wepays-terms-of-service-as-it-relates-to-adult http://blog.wepay.com/post/86048891401/wepays-terms-of-servi... )

Mithaldu 12y ago

Was this screenshot doctored? http://kittystryker.com/files/2014/05/Screen-Shot-2014-05-17-at-1.12.53-PM.png http://kittystryker.com/files/2014/05/Screen-Shot-2014-05-17... If not, why does it not point out the tweets that led to the decision?

philh 12y ago
That email was from GiveForward, not WePay.

us0r 12y ago

It does not appear the porn was going to be produced as a result of the donation. Either way the funds shouldn't have been held. I think the bigger question is - WTF is up with the Doctor? I have never heard of this. I always thought they remained neutral regardless of beliefs?