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I'd be happy to take the other side of that bet. At the very least, he's going to be at least as well regarded as some combination of Deep Throat and Daniel El

by rdl 12y ago

I'd be happy to take the other side of that bet. At the very least, he's going to be at least as well regarded as some combination of Deep Throat and Daniel Ellsberg. He might actually end up as the Rachel Carson of the issue. There's an outside chance he could be the John Brown. There are a few axes of comparison: effectiveness of his action, and "goodness" of his motivation. They're not completely orthogonal, but if he turns out to have been an (unwitting?) SVR asset, or if a big terrorist incident happens which includes comsec/opsec derived from the Snowden leaks, he's probably doomed on both. But I don't think that's likely.

dfc 12y ago
I think you forgot to include one axis that Snowden fails to compete with the Rev. Dr. MLK; length of sustained actions in the face of extreme risk to life and liberty. Rev. Dr. King's legacy is also buttressed by his writings in addition to his actions, Snowden has yet to pen something as eloquent as "Letter from a Birmingham Jail."[^1] Addendum: I just saw the mention of John Brown. I tried to tip toe around the issue originally but with Brown's name being mentioned it is the elephant in the room. Hopefully Snowden will not join John Brown or Rev. Dr. King among the list of those that died in the service of social action. [^1]: If he does pen something like Letter from a Birmingham jail I hope he leaves instructions with his lawyer/estate to not be fascists about enforcing copyright protections on the work.
- rdl 12y ago
  Being non-anonymous is a point in favor of Snowden being remembered (DT did a lot more than Ellsberg but...), although being in limbo in Russia really isn't helping. Another interesting question is timing. If Snowden had happened in December 2002 (so, no elections, and the programs well underway), he probably wouldn't have the level of support we have today. Before the Iraq War, there was certainly a lot more support of the GWoT among even "reasonable" people. I remember launching an anonymous remailer late on 9/11 or 9/12 and it really seemed like the end for people caring about privacy. If MLK had happened much earlier, it probably would have been a lot more difficult for him, too. With Snowden, I think we're a bit late (in time for the elections of 2008 or 2012 would have been great; the financial collapse might have been a necessary precondition for distrust of institutions though) -- a decade more on the same trajectory would have been a lot worse, and IMO probably irreversible.

by rdl 12y ago

dfc 12y ago

I think you forgot to include one axis that Snowden fails to compete with the Rev. Dr. MLK; length of sustained actions in the face of extreme risk to life and liberty. Rev. Dr. King's legacy is also buttressed by his writings in addition to his actions, Snowden has yet to pen something as eloquent as "Letter from a Birmingham Jail."[^1] Addendum: I just saw the mention of John Brown. I tried to tip toe around the issue originally but with Brown's name being mentioned it is the elephant in the room. Hopefully Snowden will not join John Brown or Rev. Dr. King among the list of those that died in the service of social action. [^1]: If he does pen something like Letter from a Birmingham jail I hope he leaves instructions with his lawyer/estate to not be fascists about enforcing copyright protections on the work.

rdl 12y ago
Being non-anonymous is a point in favor of Snowden being remembered (DT did a lot more than Ellsberg but...), although being in limbo in Russia really isn't helping. Another interesting question is timing. If Snowden had happened in December 2002 (so, no elections, and the programs well underway), he probably wouldn't have the level of support we have today. Before the Iraq War, there was certainly a lot more support of the GWoT among even "reasonable" people. I remember launching an anonymous remailer late on 9/11 or 9/12 and it really seemed like the end for people caring about privacy. If MLK had happened much earlier, it probably would have been a lot more difficult for him, too. With Snowden, I think we're a bit late (in time for the elections of 2008 or 2012 would have been great; the financial collapse might have been a necessary precondition for distrust of institutions though) -- a decade more on the same trajectory would have been a lot worse, and IMO probably irreversible.