5 ms·

PHP would be even more powerful to you ;)

by derengel 12y ago

solarmist 12y ago
http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
- pmelendez 12y ago
  Not that I am not agree with the link but Python is not caveats free either. The fact that they have to "fix" the language in one version making it incompatible with previous versions is smelly enough to me from a design point of view.
  - solarmist 12y ago
    Breaking backwards compatibility doesn't necessarily mean bad initial design. One of the main breaks of compatibility in python 3 was making strings unicode by default. The world changes, why wouldn't a language change to meet that need? Honestly I think a lot more languages (cough, Java, cough, cough) would benefit from breaking backward compatibility (occasionally, like every 10-15 years) rather than force it to maintain cruft that no longer makes sense to keep.
  - Walkman 12y ago
    There was no desperate need for Unicode everywhere when Python 2 was made. Looking back it's a fix, but other languages have this problem either and can't really be avoided.
  - Demiurge 12y ago
    The smell of perfection trying best good is the smell I want to wake up to every morning.
tracker1 12y ago
PHP would be among the worst languages you could throw at somebody learning computer programming concepts. I'm pretty sure this was a joke, just the same. I was learning to program around the time when php and classic asp were gaining ground (1996)... php had far more to offer for free, but the utter inconsistencies irked me to no end, and still do.
codygman 12y ago
How would PHP be even more powerful?
- derengel 12y ago
  I was half joking, the parent said python was incredible powerful to him because it allow him to make money quickly, some would say php is king in that domain. By quickly he meant from the process you start learning your first programming language to be able to make money with that language.
  - mercer 12y ago
    I both agree and disagree with the truth part of your joke. I agree in that a bunch of people I know started out with Wordpress or even Joomla, and managed to get a site working for a paying client relatively quickly. And making money was a great motivator for them to get better, and 'grow' out of php, or at least start using better CMS' or frameworks (or write their own wordpress plugins). I've found that especially designers who 'know a bit of html' seem to get pretty far with Wordpress and a bit of jQuery they copy and paste. The result is usually an abomination in my eyes, but hey, if they're getting by doing it, and especially if it's a gateway to getting better at actual programming, why not? That's how I did it! But I I also partly disagree in that I've also met quite a few web 'developers' who did so well 'snippeting' their Wordpress/joomla sites together, that they never moved beyond that and eventually succumbed to fierce competition. Because now they're competing with non-programming designers who can build fancy looking websites with cool interactivity, and are better at making it look good. Because I've seen both good and bad come out of it, I usually try to gauge what kind of person I have in front of me when they approach me for help or advice. If it's someone who doesn't seem to have the inherent curiosity to become a better programmer, I might just help them set up their first wordpress site and do my best to keep them from doing too much 'damage'. If I do see a bit of curiosity, I try to gently steer them towards other solutions (Middleman + heroku, or Ruby on Rails for example) that are a nice midpoint between some 'coding' and seeing quick results. And if I think I have full-blown future programmer in front of me, I just throw tons of stuff at them, usually right in the browser dev console, (closures, callbacks, functional-style programming) and relish seeing them try to figure it out and go home and tinker with a Fiddle! Those are my favorites.

PHP would be even more powerful to you ;)

solarmist 12y ago

http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/

pmelendez 12y ago
Not that I am not agree with the link but Python is not caveats free either. The fact that they have to "fix" the language in one version making it incompatible with previous versions is smelly enough to me from a design point of view.
- solarmist 12y ago
  Breaking backwards compatibility doesn't necessarily mean bad initial design. One of the main breaks of compatibility in python 3 was making strings unicode by default. The world changes, why wouldn't a language change to meet that need? Honestly I think a lot more languages (cough, Java, cough, cough) would benefit from breaking backward compatibility (occasionally, like every 10-15 years) rather than force it to maintain cruft that no longer makes sense to keep.
- Walkman 12y ago
  There was no desperate need for Unicode everywhere when Python 2 was made. Looking back it's a fix, but other languages have this problem either and can't really be avoided.
- Demiurge 12y ago
  The smell of perfection trying best good is the smell I want to wake up to every morning.

tracker1 12y ago

PHP would be among the worst languages you could throw at somebody learning computer programming concepts. I'm pretty sure this was a joke, just the same. I was learning to program around the time when php and classic asp were gaining ground (1996)... php had far more to offer for free, but the utter inconsistencies irked me to no end, and still do.

codygman 12y ago

How would PHP be even more powerful?

derengel 12y ago
I was half joking, the parent said python was incredible powerful to him because it allow him to make money quickly, some would say php is king in that domain. By quickly he meant from the process you start learning your first programming language to be able to make money with that language.
- mercer 12y ago
  I both agree and disagree with the truth part of your joke. I agree in that a bunch of people I know started out with Wordpress or even Joomla, and managed to get a site working for a paying client relatively quickly. And making money was a great motivator for them to get better, and 'grow' out of php, or at least start using better CMS' or frameworks (or write their own wordpress plugins). I've found that especially designers who 'know a bit of html' seem to get pretty far with Wordpress and a bit of jQuery they copy and paste. The result is usually an abomination in my eyes, but hey, if they're getting by doing it, and especially if it's a gateway to getting better at actual programming, why not? That's how I did it! But I I also partly disagree in that I've also met quite a few web 'developers' who did so well 'snippeting' their Wordpress/joomla sites together, that they never moved beyond that and eventually succumbed to fierce competition. Because now they're competing with non-programming designers who can build fancy looking websites with cool interactivity, and are better at making it look good. Because I've seen both good and bad come out of it, I usually try to gauge what kind of person I have in front of me when they approach me for help or advice. If it's someone who doesn't seem to have the inherent curiosity to become a better programmer, I might just help them set up their first wordpress site and do my best to keep them from doing too much 'damage'. If I do see a bit of curiosity, I try to gently steer them towards other solutions (Middleman + heroku, or Ruby on Rails for example) that are a nice midpoint between some 'coding' and seeing quick results. And if I think I have full-blown future programmer in front of me, I just throw tons of stuff at them, usually right in the browser dev console, (closures, callbacks, functional-style programming) and relish seeing them try to figure it out and go home and tinker with a Fiddle! Those are my favorites.