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> "It seemingly goes against all a rescuer’s training" Perhaps, but only if you don't have any training as a rescuer... Rescuer safety is always the first prio
by JshWright 12y ago
> "It seemingly goes against all a rescuer’s training"
Perhaps, but only if you don't have any training as a rescuer... Rescuer safety is always the first priority. A rescuer becoming another victim is just about the worst case scenario in any operation. It dramatically increases the resources needed, and does nothing to benefit the original victim.
My safety (and my crew's safety) first, _then_ the victim. We don't do them any good if we're dead or injured.
That's not to say you don't take calculated risks to effect rescues... That's the nature of the game. It's all about risk vs. reward. Entering electrified water to recover someone who is very likely already dead is an extremely high risk for a very low reward.
Source: Firefighter/Paramedic
- angersock 12y agoThat's generally why we don't see emergency response folks running to the side of an injured person, right? No reason to slip and add injury to injury?
- jmadsen 12y agoI think people mistook this as a troll, but that's my understanding, yes. Often times an injured person is in the middle of an area where caution is needed when approaching by others; EPs are taught to approach carefully, not run into the area.
- sokoloff 12y agoThere is also a beneficial aspect that a calm approach to and overall appraisal of the scene instills in the responder. "Am I putting myself or anyone else in danger?" "Am I treating the highest priority situation? Helping the most seriously injured person that I am able to help?" "Am I assessing the entire situation, rather than fixating on the first thing that catches my attention?" Running into the scene with adrenaline pumping can be a recipe for starting sub-optimal response (albeit starting it a few seconds earlier)
- jmadsen 12y agothanks for the much better explanation
- JshWright 12y agoAssuming you're serious (which I believe you are), you're spot on. When approaching someone who has been injured, it's important to ensure the same fate doesn't befall you... Paramedics don't run towards victims, they approach cautiously, keeping a close eye on the scene around them. Firefighters don't "run" into burning buildings (despite what script writers think...). We enter very carefully, often on hands and knees), pounding the floor ahead to make sure it's still there...
- angersock 12y agoAh, cool. I'd had some friends that were EMTs, and one of their big complaints was onlookers getting annoyed that they weren't running over to the people they were supposed to be helping. Similarly, listening to an EMT describe with exasperation that no, they are not going to go provide aid within range of a suspected person who's armed and dangerous; let the cops secure the scene first.
- dfc 12y ago> Source: Firefighter/Paramedic Ugh, HN can we please resist adopting "the reddit meme of providing a snippet of biographical information which (supposedly) establishes your authority to speak on the subject."[^1] For a long time the unofficial motto of the CG was "You have to go out, but you don't have to come back."[^2] Does your local firefighting department use USCG Green Amber Red risk management/assessment procedures? [^1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/21qxao/brief_reminder_you_are_not_a_source/ http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/21qxao/brief_... [^2]: http://www.uscg.mil/history/faqs/LSSmotto.asp http://www.uscg.mil/history/faqs/LSSmotto.asp
- JshWright 12y agoSorry, didn't mean to offend. I wasn't speaking about the practices of the Coast Guard specifically. The author of the original article generalized to "rescuers" which _is_ something I can speak about authoritatively, reddit memes not withstanding... Our risk assessment is based on various SOGs, which are, in turn, based on NFPA and NIST guidelines.
- dfc 12y agoNo worries. The "Source" thing is just a hot button of mine and I could not let my respect for what you do get in the way of speaking up. "Source: XXXX" is the internet equivalent of "because I said so" and only my mom gets away with that one. I think it has a dreadful effect on lively intelligent discourse. The Pjs are the least risk averse rescue group that I can think of and even they consider the risk of life when planning conducting operations. The PJs' creed is one of my favorites: It is my duty as a Pararescueman to save lives and to aid the injured. I will be prepared at all times to perform my assigned duties quickly and efficiently, placing these duties before personal desires and comforts. These things I do, that others may live.
- JshWright 12y agoDespite our minor squabble on an internet forum, I suspect we'd get along pretty well...
- vacri 12y agoHere in Australia, first aid is trained in the acronym "DR ABCD" as an order for dealing with people in distress. It started out as ABC, but they keep on finding things to add. Anyway, the very first letter is 'Danger'. Before going to help, make you're you're not in danger, and consider further dangers to the patient. So even in first aid, it's one of the first things you're trained in; it was a strange line to come across in the article.
- FireBeyond 12y ago"We don't do them any good if we're dead or injured" Not only that, we then actively risk the lives of others in our crew. For similar reasons, fully involved empty building? I'm not sending my guys in there without a very good reason. Source: another FF/PM